no capital ship must ever have a torpedoslot for actual torpedos. ( i know they have torp HPs, but only for CDs ) fighter weapons are way too efficient for warships. - and the supernova is too efficient to be fired by anything but a bomber.
if a gunboat had even only one torp slot for a SN, it made all bombers obsolete. - and if a bomber had gunboat turrets, it had to have a gunboat powercore, making it possible to fire twin SNs at the weapons refire rate instead of waiting for the energy to replenish.
' Wrote:i know i m not really too good at gunning others down, but i think i should be able to stick on a bombers six in a hammerhead and be able to hit it.
Maybe we sould make the targeting system more efficient like mood the cursor (or something).
Crazy idea for making bombers rape capships, get totally pwnzord by fighters-
Reduce their top speed to, say, 150, but increase the range on their torpedoes. Make them decently dodgy so they can avoid capship shots as they go in for a pass but not dodgy enough to survive a fighter attack, and decrease their turn speed. Kind of like real bombers, using range to their advantage, while capships use superior firepower, and fighters use speed. Then, we can probably return capships to being the massive moving fortresses they were meant to be, possibly slow their impulse speed down too, and give them decent but not overpowered anti-fighter defenses. None of the old flak turrets, but light guns. Also, adding a few more anti-heavy-capital-ship gunboats and cruisers, with powerful long range forward guns, a sleek forward hitbox but a not so sleek side hitbox, as well as reduced anti-fighter shielding and capabilities. Kind of like submarines.
I have tried almost all the bombers at one time or another, and have not used them for a awhile now due to there "brickness". There are some that are different, we can show the stats till we are bug-eyed from staring at the computer screen, but most are death-traps IMO. What I would like to suggest is geing back to the basic concept of the bomber and it's intended use, delivering heavy ordinance to the target (for freelancer it would be vs cap ships or bases).
I'd say make bombers nearly as agile as fighters, but lower the gun/turret levels to say level 5 guns/ level 3 turrets. That way the guns/turrets are more for defensive or shooting npcs than part of the offensive package. Or even go to 3 torp positions with maybe 2 class 5 guns. We are talking outer space little to no gravity in theory, so a bomber should have somewhat similiar manuevering capability. We also dont want to make them uber to fighters, but the current set bombers handle like trucks (most anyway) and need some help. I have read the entire post and some God-like bomber pilots exist on this server, I am speaking as an average pilot. Please dont say get a bomber and work at it, save the sarcasm please.
I can't say. I can't tell how many times I have found myself shooting at the same bomber long enough for his cruiser-pimpin' buddy to come from leeds all the way to Chugoku to finish me off. Seriously I have been killed by traders in Luxury liners meanwhile I can't seem to hit a lousy corsair bomber in my battle cruiser for 20 minutes or so. We need to help help out the no0bs with dodging and maneuverability, E-kill, strafing it doesn't work for me even in a light fighter.
We also need to make people who know how to fully exploit said maneuvers not totally pwn everything in a given ship class. Map left and right strafe to 'a' and 'd' if you haven't already, and possibly go for New Haven flight school. You might pick up enough to defend yourself. And be "might" I mean will.
There is a huge discrepancy in overall usefulness between the bombers in general; while the best bombers are almost equally effective against capships and slower VHFs, other ones are inferior in both aspects. I would rather fly a BHG bomber than a Thor in every situation.
The bigger bombers, in particular the Thor from my experience, need better dodging. Ironically, as it is now, the more armour your bomber has (thus the less agile it is), the easier it is to kill you, since dodging is far more important for your survival than armour. I'm all for diversity and such, but the gap is just too large at the moment.
So, I'm fully supportive of the suggestions Blodo has made: bigger bombers should get a powerplant increase, as well as an improvement of their dodging ability, through size reduction and/or strafe improvement... Since the turning speed isn't touched, it wouldn't change their performance against fighters, and it would at least allow them to survive a capship within 1k for some time...
But the Raven, sitting lonely on that placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered; not a feather then he fluttered--
Till I scarcely more than muttered, "Other friends have flown before--
On the morrow he will leave me, as my Hopes have flown before."
<blockquote>Then the bird said, "Nevermore."</blockquote>
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The Thor is absolutely horrible. It's huge, it's as slow as a gunboat, and it's firepower is severely lacking, as is its armor. If you fly a Thor, you aren't actually fighting, you're surviving. For a little while anyway...
' Wrote:Note: What I post below is a concept. I want to discuss this before any stats proposals will be posted.
See, after yet another failed bombing session in my Thor against capship whorage I come to the conclusion bombers in this mod are using the wrong approach. Despite what some people think makes or breaks a fighter/bomber, the most significant attribute of all has got to be the hitbox and it's agility. As long as you can't get hit and you have some evading skill, you're very well untouchable. In the case of capital ships it is especially a difference with it's extremely fast guns, if the target is big or small. Some bombers are exquisitely big targets, so they turn out to be useless against capital ships. Which to me defeats the point of having a bomber.
Now what I propose is that all bigger bombers be actually made smaller and/or with a higher strafe speed, but to prevent them from turning into fighter busters, the bomber's turn rate should be significantly reduced to a point of just above the most agile gunboat. Some bombers don't need the size reduction (like the red catamaran), but others need it desperately (like the thor) so it can actually be of any use against the target it is meant to be good against, namely a capital ship. With the reduced turn speed it will be possible for VHFs to keep to a rear of a bomber, and bombers with ambition to destroy anything without fighter screens would be a thing of the past. It would only encourage more team work and mixed attacking groups.
Discuss.
I only read the first post so I appologize. It seems that a bomber shouldn't be able to easily or even hardly ever solo a capship, and two thors are very dangerous and unbeatable to a single cap if there is anything but the most favorable of battle conditions around. I havent fought you all much but maybe consider that. If Im wrong Im wrong.
i wrote it in a separate thread - but what do we want bombers to be...
they must be good against capital ships - but bad against fighters. - how about keeping their good turn rate, but nerfing all bombers strafing, while at the same time increasing strafing of light fighters.
how are bombers supposed to approach capital ships - by strafing or by spiralling towards them using full thrusters and directional changes - or are bombers supposed to sit at allmost maximum range dodging warship fire.
if bombers had no strafe ( as an extreme variant ) - they would be weak against fighters, who have the ability. the bomber would allways have to turn to dodge and so wouldn t be able to dodge AND fire easily. - against a capship, spiralling towards it will make it avoid the capital ship fire - while at the same time of course making firing the supernovas more difficult ( cause you have to keep the ship steady for some time or gotto skill up shooting the supernova out of a full spiralling movement )
would that make bombers too weak against capital ships? - i think not. - when i fly up to a capital ship, i currently use a combination of both, full turning ability - aswell as strafing... but i could avoid being hit without strafing, too - it would make my aiming harder though. ( which i have no problem with - cause i am equipped with a 140k weapon without any ammonition )
no strafe would mean that the bombers would be dead meat against fighters though - now.... is that what we want? when i have such an idea, i find it sometimes hard to think of all the consequences - would like to see thoughts about it...
will it make bombers too hard to fly? useless? maybe pushing them into their place as anti capship, but NOT anti fighter ships?
what i am against is a drastic increase of power - bombers, no matter what size or turn rate must never be able to fire two supernovas, cause that would be too powerful - and i d also have a problem with bombers being able to fire 1 supernova + 1 nova.
it would be a very harsh nerf of bombers, - but their primary mission ( anti capital ship ) would not be nerft too much - however their ability against fighters would suffer greatly.