Battlecruiser Rework

[Reddy]

This rework is needed and gives more options for BC loadouts. BCs were very one dimensional, BC would lose to cruisers because of their large size and slow turn rate and they would lose to gunboats and bomber spam too. they were only good vs heavy battleships. Now with the new loadouts they will be good vs cruisers and above.
for a while now the only way bc's were played was staying at 2.5k and firing prims on bs while the bs prims never hit it. the only way for a battleship to kill a bc was if they bait them close and fired double or triple HM to insta it. all other bs weaponery was useless. this rework will bring a better diversity in ship weapon loadouts. the new battlescruiser heavy turrets are 2.5k range, that's good enough distance for a fight . BCs were never meant to take out bsttleships solo, as gaga would say "they distract enemy battleship while your batleship does the damage". still as felipe says, we can wait and see which loadout is most effective and which playstyle works best. this is an exciting time

[sindroms]

Considering the overall playtime of the changes have been less than 2 hours, I highly suggest you actually try it in the actual server environment for a week, outside of Conn preferably, before throwing the toys out of the pram.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Jessitrescott]

As ive said, all you accomplished with that is to make BS's invulnerable to anything but other BS or numbers. Thanks fam! I hope i can convince ppl to make BC's gank squads to give you what you want. You made it impossible to counter BS if not with numbers. Never was "easy' to kill a BS with a BC, one or two mistakes from the BC pilot was enough to be dead, while BS taken 20mins of constant hammering to be killed.

Uhm uhm, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong and Wrong.

You're Just being blatantly bias. BS'es are Vulnerable to anything, Cruisers, Bombers, Other BSes, Carriers. Also Battleships are supposed to be countered by other battleships only, Like Bombers are supposed to be countered by VHF's.

Never was "easy' to kill a BS with a BC, one or two mistakes from the BC pilot was enough to be dead, while BS taken 20mins of constant hammering to be killed.

Never was easy to kill a BS with BC ???????????? Where do you even what the hell ? ? , You just stay at 3k spam pulses and mortars i think its not gonna get easier than that, If you cant hit your mortars on a big piece of space junk you should consider going to conn once in a while.

one or two mistakes from the BC pilot was enough to be dead, while BS taken 20mins of constant hammering to be killed.

Do you know how to avoid this mistake ???, yeah right stay at max range and troll the battleship.

You ppl want all the benefits and no risk or weak point "look at me: 3million hull, hugeloads of core, faster impulse, flak" Oh no, that damm BC can evade my fire at 3k and still deal 1/5 of damage i can! What should i do, log some cruisers and snubs as support too, instead my nice justcapfleet? No, lets nerf em to death, lets render BC's useless so ppl dont fly em anymore

Oh no the enemy battleship is baiting me and killing me and i get double HM'ed at 1.5k oh no oh no BIAS DEVS, THESE DEVS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY"RE DOOING, NERF BATTLESHIPS SO PEPOLE DONT FLY EM ANYMORE, SOMETHING THAT HAS SO MUCH FIREPOWER AND HULL BAITED ME INTO 2k AND IS DESTRYOING ME, I CANT HIT THE THRUSTER BUTTON AND GO AWAY, OMG NERF NERF NERF NERF..


Jesus Christ.


All the pepole in this thread are just complaining how hard its to kill a battleship which *cough* *cough* it should be, But nooooooooooooo you want a Gunboat size ship with LF turn rate, 9 million powercore, Dual thrusters, and 30 k Range.


i +1 This change, Battlecruisers were way to easily killing both Cruisers and Battleships in fleetbattles, Obvious ones where the GRN-Bretonia wars where 3 Obstinantes could easily kill 2 Kirks, 2 Crecys .

Battlecruiser Mortar -|- Damage: 350000h/175000s - Energy: 2.1 mil - Range: 3000m
Battleship Mortar -|- Damage: 390000h/195000s - Energy: 1.56 mil - Range: 5495m
Even more to that, the fact that the main armament was replaced with four amazingly useless heavy slots is really just backwards logic. It's a mixed classnot have to be the odd man out by being a fat, armored gun platform that can't hit anything without essentially committing suicide. If a BC closed in to gun range, any competent BS captain would just light them up, and BOOM. No more BC.

If I were a dev, and I saw this on my plate, I'd rather just remove BCs altogether than just flat ruin them.

. It should be able to play the part of both ships,

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Its not supposed to play the part of both ships, it was supposed to be a fine line between them, It was supposed to be the jack of all but master of none.But instead we had a ship that excelled at killing both battleships and cruisers, Now someone spotted the loophole and closed it down.

If a BC closed in to gun range, any competent BS captain would just light them up, and BOOM. No more BC.

Imagine if the BC captain stayed at max range and used his mouse to dodge the Heavy Mortars that BC's fired at him.... Ikr BOOM. No more BS.

Battlecruiser Mortar -|- Damage: 350000h/175000s - Energy: 2.1 mil - Range: 3000m
Battleship Mortar -|- Damage: 390000h/195000s - Energy: 1.56 mil - Range: 5495m

Hello yes we should give BC's Weapons that do more damage than battleship weapons and also have better efficiency.

[eigos]

Guys, from a dev's point of view (I am NOT a balance dev, mind you), here is what this patch is all about:
1.) Getting more control of the different Cap Ship classes AND their Light/Medium/Heavy subclasses;
2.) Balancing out some of the previously overpowered ones (especially destroyers, like the Storta);

Now, let's see what has been done:

= Destroyer Turrets = (there were only two types, Kusari and Outcast ones) are now 1100 m/s (from 1300), 2.0 refire (from 4.0), +200m more range and a lot less damage compared to the Cruiser counterparts. Reasoning: those turrets were OP against snubs, it effectively made high-damage gunboats out of the Storta and KU BC + Dessie. I, myself, was feeling uncomfortable, for flying a Storta with this setup and part of the reason why I stopped going to fights and logging at all.

= Mortars (All of them) =
- Light Mortars - the range nerf from 3000m to 2500m was sorely needed. Cruisers/Dessies were killing BS's without breaking a sweat, dodging and generally being annoying in battleship fights. The added +1s cooldown (not yet implemented, coming soon) is also in line with all other mortars, so now, missing a shot IS a big deal. That's how it should be.
- Battlecruiser Mortars - they have the previous 3000m range now, so they can outrange the smaller Cruisers/Dessies properly, cause almost 2x the damage per shot and CAN fight battleships, while still being vulnerable to them. I don't see any problem here, consider the size differences and low manueverability (and lack of thruster) on a BS. In the end of the day, Battlecruisers shouldn't be a pocket-sized battleship and beating every other cap class on their own. Only if you have the skill, you can do it.
- Battleship Mortars - those hit HARD now and it was about time - with such a huge weapon effect animation, bigger than a gunboat, it should DECIMATE things on its path and now it properly does! Their range is great, perfect for Base Sieges, they now properly represent a threat to any cruiser/battlecruiser who forgets to manuever properly during a fight. Positioning is key, if you are experienced, you will stay on a blindspot so the battleship mortar doesn't hit you. A big YES on those big guns finally representing a battleship's prowess.

= Battlecruiser Weapons = now, we get A LOT more control over tweaking the Battlecruiser class, without breaking Cruisers/Dessies' balance. They hit hard, have more range and their own heavy armaments, nothing is missing! Consider this: a Battlecruiser previously was able to manfight anything that's smaller (point blank range) without even draining its battery fully, before the fight was over! What made it so powerful, was the usage of 2x BS Primaries, which were too good compared to Cruiser Cerberuses and they had 3k range instead of 1.7k! Not to mention the higher refire rate. With the new Cruiser/Dessie missiles added, a BC was going to absolutely demolish anything smaller than itself, chain-firing missiles at low energy cost. Now, BC's have overall better range than the smaller caps, higher dps, but properly draining their battery in return.
P.S. They also have their own FLAKs. How cool is that! Leave the BS Flak for BS's, we can balance them separately now.

If a BC closed in to gun range, any competent BS captain would just light them up, and BOOM. No more BC.

^ And that, my friend, is exactly how it should be. A solo fight, Battleship versus Battlecruiser, the Battleship should be able to win. If it didn't, then everyone would just fly Battlecruisers. What would the point be to have Battleships and Dreadnoughts if they were just big slow toys?

It all comes down to skill, in the end. Fly your Battlecruiser while keeping a distance, shoot your missiles/pulses, go into an asteroid field and the Battleship is toast. Being the bigger foe, it MAKES SENSE for you to call for a wingman, a Bomber, or another Cruiser - up to you! It would be a good, challenging fight and that's what makes it worth!

[sasapinjic]

This change looks good on paper (havent test it yet), BC shuld be weaker than BS and shuld run from it (and it HAS thruster to do so btw), and on same time, be stronger than smaller crafts that in return are faster than BC and can run from them.
It's ridiculus so far that BS was at mercy of BC, cant hit or aproach , couse of speed and small size, and even if it can aproach by BC mistake, BC will cruise off and BS cant CD it. On other hand, BS cant flee couse of BC CD, and BC can troll BS all Day from safe distance with prims and LM. Only thing BS was able to do is run and dock to denie BC a kill.
Fully aprove this change.

[Reddy]

Guys, from a dev's point of view (I am NOT a balance dev, mind you), here is what this patch is all about:
1.) Getting more control of the different Cap Ship classes AND their Light/Medium/Heavy subclasses;
2.) Balancing out some of the previously overpowered ones (especially destroyers, like the Storta);

Now, let's see what has been done:

= Destroyer Turrets = (there were only two types, Kusari and Outcast ones) are now 1100 m/s (from 1300), 2.0 refire (from 4.0), +200m more range and a lot less damage compared to the Cruiser counterparts. Reasoning: those turrets were OP against snubs, it effectively made high-damage gunboats out of the Storta and KU BC + Dessie. I, myself, was feeling uncomfortable, for flying a Storta with this setup and part of the reason why I stopped going to fights and logging at all.

= Mortars (All of them) =
- Light Mortars - the range nerf from 3000m to 2500m was sorely needed. Cruisers/Dessies were killing BS's without breaking a sweat, dodging and generally being annoying in battleship fights. The added +1s cooldown (not yet implemented, coming soon) is also in line with all other mortars, so now, missing a shot IS a big deal. That's how it should be.
- Battlecruiser Mortars - they have the previous 3000m range now, so they can outrange the smaller Cruisers/Dessies properly, cause almost 2x the damage per shot and CAN fight battleships, while still being vulnerable to them. I don't see any problem here, consider the size differences and low manueverability (and lack of thruster) on a BS. In the end of the day, Battlecruisers shouldn't be a pocket-sized battleship and beating every other cap class on their own. Only if you have the skill, you can do it.
- Battleship Mortars - those hit HARD now and it was about time - with such a huge weapon effect animation, bigger than a gunboat, it should DECIMATE things on its path and now it properly does! Their range is great, perfect for Base Sieges, they now properly represent a threat to any cruiser/battlecruiser who forgets to manuever properly during a fight. Positioning is key, if you are experienced, you will stay on a blindspot so the battleship mortar doesn't hit you. A big YES on those big guns finally representing a battleship's prowess.

= Battlecruiser Weapons = now, we get A LOT more control over tweaking the Battlecruiser class, without breaking Cruisers/Dessies' balance. They hit hard, have more range and their own heavy armaments, nothing is missing! Consider this: a Battlecruiser previously was able to manfight anything that's smaller (point blank range) without even draining its battery fully, before the fight was over! What made it so powerful, was the usage of 2x BS Primaries, which were too good compared to Cruiser Cerberuses and they had 3k range instead of 1.7k! Not to mention the higher refire rate. With the new Cruiser/Dessie missiles added, a BC was going to absolutely demolish anything smaller than itself, chain-firing missiles at low energy cost. Now, BC's have overall better range than the smaller caps, higher dps, but properly draining their battery in return.
P.S. They also have their own FLAKs. How cool is that! Leave the BS Flak for BS's, we can balance them separately now.

If a BC closed in to gun range, any competent BS captain would just light them up, and BOOM. No more BC.

^ And that, my friend, is exactly how it should be. A solo fight, Battleship versus Battlecruiser, the Battleship should be able to win. If it didn't, then everyone would just fly Battlecruisers. What would the point be to have Battleships and Dreadnoughts if they were just big slow toys?

It all comes down to skill, in the end. Fly your Battlecruiser while keeping a distance, shoot your missiles/pulses, go into an asteroid field and the Battleship is toast. Being the bigger foe, it MAKES SENSE for you to call for a wingman, a Bomber, or another Cruiser - up to you! It would be a good, challenging fight and that's what makes it worth!

+1
I remember a event where it was GRN vs BAF. A fight in edinburgh. It was a whole kirk fleet vs 1 valor and rest GRN bc. It was awful. 30minutes of firing guns and slowly all the kirks were decimated by the BC firing prims and lms from max range.
Another fight was corsairs vs outcasts in alpha. It was legats and murmillios vs storta spam. Same result.

[Epo]

Guys, from a dev's point of view (I am NOT a balance dev, mind you), here is what this patch is all about:
1.) Getting more control of the different Cap Ship classes AND their Light/Medium/Heavy subclasses;
2.) Balancing out some of the previously overpowered ones (especially destroyers, like the Storta);

Now, let's see what has been done:

= Destroyer Turrets = (there were only two types, Kusari and Outcast ones) are now 1100 m/s (from 1300), 2.0 refire (from 4.0), +200m more range and a lot less damage compared to the Cruiser counterparts. Reasoning: those turrets were OP against snubs, it effectively made high-damage gunboats out of the Storta and KU BC + Dessie. I, myself, was feeling uncomfortable, for flying a Storta with this setup and part of the reason why I stopped going to fights and logging at all.

= Mortars (All of them) =
- Light Mortars - the range nerf from 3000m to 2500m was sorely needed. Cruisers/Dessies were killing BS's without breaking a sweat, dodging and generally being annoying in battleship fights. The added +1s cooldown (not yet implemented, coming soon) is also in line with all other mortars, so now, missing a shot IS a big deal. That's how it should be.
- Battlecruiser Mortars - they have the previous 3000m range now, so they can outrange the smaller Cruisers/Dessies properly, cause almost 2x the damage per shot and CAN fight battleships, while still being vulnerable to them. I don't see any problem here, consider the size differences and low manueverability (and lack of thruster) on a BS. In the end of the day, Battlecruisers shouldn't be a pocket-sized battleship and beating every other cap class on their own. Only if you have the skill, you can do it.
- Battleship Mortars - those hit HARD now and it was about time - with such a huge weapon effect animation, bigger than a gunboat, it should DECIMATE things on its path and now it properly does! Their range is great, perfect for Base Sieges, they now properly represent a threat to any cruiser/battlecruiser who forgets to manuever properly during a fight. Positioning is key, if you are experienced, you will stay on a blindspot so the battleship mortar doesn't hit you. A big YES on those big guns finally representing a battleship's prowess.

= Battlecruiser Weapons = now, we get A LOT more control over tweaking the Battlecruiser class, without breaking Cruisers/Dessies' balance. They hit hard, have more range and their own heavy armaments, nothing is missing! Consider this: a Battlecruiser previously was able to manfight anything that's smaller (point blank range) without even draining its battery fully, before the fight was over! What made it so powerful, was the usage of 2x BS Primaries, which were too good compared to Cruiser Cerberuses and they had 3k range instead of 1.7k! Not to mention the higher refire rate. With the new Cruiser/Dessie missiles added, a BC was going to absolutely demolish anything smaller than itself, chain-firing missiles at low energy cost. Now, BC's have overall better range than the smaller caps, higher dps, but properly draining their battery in return.
P.S. They also have their own FLAKs. How cool is that! Leave the BS Flak for BS's, we can balance them separately now.

If a BC closed in to gun range, any competent BS captain would just light them up, and BOOM. No more BC.

^ And that, my friend, is exactly how it should be. A solo fight, Battleship versus Battlecruiser, the Battleship should be able to win. If it didn't, then everyone would just fly Battlecruisers. What would the point be to have Battleships and Dreadnoughts if they were just big slow toys?

It all comes down to skill, in the end. Fly your Battlecruiser while keeping a distance, shoot your missiles/pulses, go into an asteroid field and the Battleship is toast. Being the bigger foe, it MAKES SENSE for you to call for a wingman, a Bomber, or another Cruiser - up to you! It would be a good, challenging fight and that's what makes it worth!

+1
I remember a event where it was GRN vs BAF. A fight in edinburgh. It was a whole kirk fleet vs 1 valor and rest GRN bc. It was awful. 30minutes of firing guns and slowly all the kirks were decimated by the BC firing prims and lms from max range.
Another fight was corsairs vs outcasts in alpha. It was legats and murmillios vs storta spam. Same result.

There were actually 3 valors if I remember well. Myself, sasa and someone else

[Thunderer]

I remember discussing this battlecruiser rework with @Titan* and that we concluded that they should have 1 BS heavy slot, 3 BS medium slots and a number of BS light slots and cruiser slots which I can't remember. What has happened to this and why the sudden battlecruiser weapon class?

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Bretonian Treaty Database Bretonian Armed Forces Recruitment Center
Bretonian Charter of Interstellar Law Bretonian Secrets Act

[Shaggy]

So i'm not going to spend my type writing an essay, I got things to do, places to be.

But i've just had a fight with Titan on his Sarissa and I was on my battlecruiser. It was a very very close fight, I did win with around 1 - 2 % health left. While his ship is a support setup, it was still a very tricky fight.

Then after that I fought someone flying HMS-Monarch, and they have a more of a attack/assault setup, completely different to Titan's and it is still capable of being able to win a 1 v 1 against a BS in a BC.

You just need to know how and be very very careful, an expierenced battleship pilot who can blind fire primes and mortar's could be super dangerous for you. People like Thunderer, Black Smoke, Gaga, Jess and alot more, so this whole need rework is a treat for battlecruiser pilots like myself.

You may all be saying bad things about this patch but I love it. It was needed, the fact the ships have been sized up and given there own weapons, weapon hard points and will eventually get there own shield or a heavy cruiser shield would be perfect.

Thank you to the dev team for making this come true.

[eigos]

I remember discussing this battlecruiser rework with @Titan* and that we concluded that they should have 1 BS heavy slot, 3 BS medium slots and a number of BS light slots and cruiser slots which I can't remember. What has happened to this and why the sudden battlecruiser weapon class?

The problem with Bcruisers using Bship weapons is we wouldnt be able to balance them separately if they shared their turrets. Now we can.
Second problem - turret models. There are new, extremely huge BS primaries and more models that I am about to make. They would look RIDICULOUS on a battlecruiser if mounted. Way too big even for Disney standards.

You may all be saying bad things about this patch but I love it. It was needed, the fact the ships have been sized up and given there own weapons, weapon hard points and will eventually get there own shield or a heavy cruiser shield would be perfect.

Yup, cruiser shield varieties are coming up soon.