If nomads are so strong how come a single blonde Bretonian with questionable sexuality defeated them with a single fighter ship? Checkmate Avatar fanboys!
(09-18-2018, 03:03 AM)Foxglove Wrote: Actually, Tenacity is wrong, and I am willing to bet you are too, Karlotta.
I'm sorry, were you a keeper? Because I was.
An argument from authority will not help when it comes to this. Back when the Keepers were a thing, what you were saying might have been the faction's policy, but even back then it would have been flawed reasoning for the reasons @Antonio stated. Allow me to make my own argument from authority here when I say that this comes from a person who leads the most active Nomad faction right now and is actually shaping the lore of the Nomads in terms of infocards, asset placement etc..
(09-18-2018, 03:03 AM)Foxglove Wrote: Actually, Tenacity is wrong, and I am willing to bet you are too, Karlotta.
He's wrong 50%. He's right in saying they're machines and not necessarily subjugated to certain principles like growth and expansion like humans. He's of course wrong in saying that humans are insignificant or puny to them, but that's what others are wrong about too (as said before).
To me "I am willing to bet you are wrong too" is a rather strange and revealing statement. Don't "bet" that I'm wrong, say where and how.
Pointing out that nomads are machines that don't abide to the same principles of evolved life (as Tenacity did) is a very important thing, because I see 99% of nomad RP make the mistake of giving nomads behavior which is absolutely 100% human, probably without knowing it:
1. They display arrogance by constantly telling each other as well as humans how puny humans are and how superior they think they are. That's a behavior deeply routed in human social relations (or in other earth life forms where males "parade" for females), which serves no other purpose than to establish "social rank". I guess RPing like this comes from the fact that the players behind it have no other ideas for RPing as a "superior life form", and also a bit from how they're trying to profile themselves as players. But it's kinda cringe worthy really.
2. The constant display of emotions which are utterly human, which come from our evolutionary back ground/instincts and the chemicals in our brains. Such as "rage" "joy" and so on. I mean... really?
In relation to 1 I'd also like to point out that Nomads are arguably superior in some ways, but widely inferior in others. They woke up from "statis" only a few hundred years ago knowing little to nothing about Sirius, with the technology at their disposal invented by DKV and not themselves, and little to no resources of their own (they built and/or discovered the DKV gradually). Humans have millennia of experience inventing, building, strategizing, learning. It's also extremely likely Nomads have to use human brains to be able to "think" the way humans do, and it's not unlikely that humans are actually "smarter" than the Slomon K'Hara (without human host). It's likely Nomads learned most of what they know about technology (including DKV technology) and Sirius from, or with the help of, humans.
I sorta feel like you're making the mistake of inferring from the premise "they are biological machines" a conclusion which does not follow from the premise, which is that they are therefore necessarily so drastically different that they experience emotion differently from humans. I feel that is a non sequitor.
While, granted, you could interpret it that way, but that would add your own perception of how a biological machine would operate into the premise to form your conclusion. The interpretation of the Nomad way of acting, feeling and conveying this to humans has already been done years ago, however and I doubt it can be changed just like that.
However, this is only tangentially related to the initial question of the thread, which pertained to the expansion of the Nomads. The answer was provided by Antonio already, but the simple summary is that, while they would like to get rid of humanity because they are in the way of the Nomads colonizing Sirius, they do not have the power to do so.
Nomads are not expanding because they lack resources to do so.
Nomads also are not expanding because they inRP need to defend their perimeter and deal with the biggest threat, which is Order and Core, that knock on their doorsteps occasionally.
However i wouldn't mind occasional raids to houses , to just promote activity in certain regions, and not to lose the fun factor of this game.
Wild branches exist for covert expansion throughout the houses.
(09-18-2018, 02:39 PM)Foxglove Wrote: I sorta feel like you're making the mistake of inferring from the premise "they are biological machines" a conclusion which does not follow from the premise, which is that they are therefore necessarily so drastically different that they experience emotion differently from humans. I feel that is a non sequitor.
While, granted, you could interpret it that way, but that would add your own perception of how a biological machine would operate into the premise to form your conclusion. The interpretation of the Nomad way of acting, feeling and conveying this to humans has already been done years ago, however and I doubt it can be changed just like that.
However, this is only tangentially related to the initial question of the thread, which pertained to the expansion of the Nomads. The answer was provided by Antonio already, but the simple summary is that, while they would like to get rid of humanity because they are in the way of the Nomads colonizing Sirius, they do not have the power to do so.
It certainly does matter if people RP nomads in an apparently very emotionally driven "kill all humans" way like it's done a lot here.
Why would the DKV give Nomads emotions at all? Our emotions are remnants of animal instincts from before we were able to make rational decisions, which now often lead us to make irrational and harmful mistakes (for example irrational fears and violence which only ends up harming ourselves).
And why would an alien species give their machines emotions (and social behavior) similar to humans when they serve no function to them because they're actually radically different from us, unless they're trying to intentionally trying to simulate humans? I can see why a human host would still have those emotions. But a blue ship?
Of course RP can be changed, just like every other aspect of the game. Not saying everyone HAS to RP differently from now on, but it would be nice if people were as open to other people's RP as they want others to be towards their own.
The Nomads are supposed to be highly intelligent, empathetic telepaths. If they didn't understand emotion, they would not be that. Anthing further like "why'd the DKV design the Nomads with the ability to be emotional" falls into place from there. Also, saying that emotions in human being are merely remnants of the animals we evolved from is overly simplistic. They are not more and not less than the key to our survival as a species. They are absolutely useful to have.
You could argue seeing Nomads express this is cringy, but well.
(09-18-2018, 03:21 PM)Foxglove Wrote: The Nomads are supposed to be highly intelligent, empathetic telepaths. If they didn't understand emotion, they would not be that. Anthing further like "why'd the DKV design the Nomads with the ability to be emotional" falls into place from there. Also, saying that emotions in human being are merely remnants of the animals we evolved from is overly simplistic. They are not more and not less than the key to our survival as a species. They are absolutely useful to have.
You could argue seeing Nomads express this is cringy, but well.
You seem to be equating understanding emotions with having them and being controlled by them. Nomads can learn to understand the emotions of their hosts, and of the humans they observe, but that doesn't mean they have to be subjected to emotions themselves. Kinda like a Torero understands that a Bull is bound to attack the red cloth, without feeling the urge to attack the red cloth himself. The Torero understands the bull's emotions and isn't driven by them (or his own emotions which make him want to drop the cloth and run away), the bull follows his rage instinct without understanding what's happening to him.
The point is that Nomads come across as the exact opposite of intelligent when they act emotionally driven. What separates humans from animals, the thing that makes us unique as a species to the point of making us "intelligent", is our ability to act rationally and not only emotionally/instinctively driven.
The "emotional machine is better machine" kinda reminds me of poorly thought through 60s robot scifi. But sure, avoid rational discussion when it doesn't suit you, with a "everything's just a matter of opinion and some opinions matter more than others". It's a big thing in disco.