So there are few issues about capital ships atm, first of all as you all mention about cap vs bombers, 3 bombers are more then enough to destroy any capital ship even those who does have flaks and CMs, staying at 2,5-3k range just with nova torpedos you are more then capable of destroying capital ships. I know you all know that in real life to protect large battleships from incoming missiles there are specialized turrets like a close range chaingun which can fire over 1000 rounds at minute or even more (Im not the expert in matter). It would be quite cool to introduce that to the game to just lower the number of incoming torps (thats my idea at least so please dont be judgy). Second thing is that captial ship have secondary turrets which at the moment are bad very bad in term of range and efficiency against small targets and players wont dare to sacrifice the secondaries by putting solaris type turrets. My suggestion is to introduce point to point defence which ship operatior can use to protect themselves from the incoming missiles like what mentioned before perfect range would be like 1k 1.5k which will have both nerfs and buffs... Buff against torpedoes doing enough damage to destory it while aproaching and a nerf for snubs and every other type of ship so it cannot be exploited to decimate bombers or snubs like shield damage:1 and hull damage:1, then I would lower the damage of the secondaries in favour or higher refiring rate and range. Currently if Im not mistaking secondaries have range of aproximately 1,8k. Benefit of having higher refire rate would be that now caps can compete against gunboat which for a moment are OP. If you got no one with GB to counter another GB you got almost no chance killing it both with snubs and caps. Im talking about this since I saw a lot of people in cap ships struggling to kill a gunboat.
Second to bring more balance in term of snubs I would add a hardpoints to current HF and VHF to accomodate a special type of guns. One type of shield busters only usable against ships above gunboats which will have the same principal of use as snaks had before small the target smaller the damage, and I would set the range of it on like 1.7k so snubs would need to get close to fire it. Same principal applied on Hull busters, and of couse to not be used against other snubs I would lower the damage like we did long ago on snaks, so it would be quite negligible.
In terms of manuvrability of capital ships I would increase the steer rate of capital ships without adding any trusted and I would do something very infamous here I would grant all ships a CD since if you are in a battleship you got no way of stoping another battleship if he goes for cruise speed.
Battlecruisers should be removed or nerfed since they are hell of the pain for any battleship both for their speed, size and manuvrability. If player is skilled enough one BC can easily beat a crap out of any battleship. I would make BCs bigger (fatter) manuvrability would be littles lowered and speed would be adjusted, both with and without the thrusters.
For now I got no more ideas if some come to me I would share it with you. Hope I wont get killed for what I wrote above.
I like Boban ideas plus making primary battleship turrets refire rate better and projectile faster. With 2.00 refire and 800 m/s cruisers and bc's are partying while the bs pilot hit nothing. Turrets are easily removed by Nightmares, imagine if you get hit by more and lose all our codes on it.
(11-30-2020, 04:14 AM)Kauket Wrote: Or you can disable the NPC's ability to collide with stuff. But yes they do need to have their combat AI fixed so they don't fkin chase you literally across the entire map.
(11-29-2020, 09:12 PM)EisenSeele Wrote: Make Cruisers and larger immune to snub CDs
I like this
(11-29-2020, 09:12 PM)EisenSeele Wrote: For Cruisers:
Give them higher thrust speed and a 360 CD to be able to actually chase gunboats for longer (while still being slower), and to be able to more easily outrun battlecruisers - otherwise, change nothing except removing solaris turrets to make Mep happy.
I do not like this considering BC guns can barely hit good cruiser pilots/ships as it is. And that's with blindfire. The best way I've seen is raw firing dual mortars which is overly specialized in my eyes.
It's a case by case. Some cruisers are larger and can be hit far easier. Some cruisers such as the triumph and archer are just broken.
Furthermore it's rather hard to fire bc secondaries without a crosshair considering their range is so short to begin with. And group firing secondaries isn't viable if you your self don't want to stop dodging as well as group firing them with nothing selected is hella inaccurate when you have to shoot such a small target with a non-converging set of guns.
If I had more buttons on my mouse I'd bind m6 to see if I can automatically group fire and not have it cancelled by my keyboard presses.
Ah more edits. But this is why I suggest to upscale cruiser size, health and dps accordingly to make it less frustrating for both of them as the BC will die faster more comfortably and the cruiser won't be as scared to stay close as if would be worth the risk.
(11-29-2020, 07:30 PM)Karlotta Wrote: I'd make caps a bit more vulnerable to snubs, maybe by giving vhf weapons a range and/or dps boost, or an additional missile/torp slot besides the CD.
After reading this again yeah I'm actually in support of this idea. Maybe not range because you'd end up with players boxing at 1.5k or even closer being impossible to hit with secondaries (Maybe solaris gatlings would fix this) but if , like with the whole shield damage type mechanics, snub guns had increased damage to capital ship hull that would be a bit more inclusive. I'd be less angry being snub swarmed if only I could have an equal chance at killing them and die a hell of a lot faster. Y'know. I want to play freelancer not press C on incoming missile for 20 mins.
Anything that takes control away from the player is bad. Like how with for honor CC mechanics they made them all either interruptible and lowered the recovery so you could get back to fighting faster.
First of all, thank you all for your replies. You have proposed good and interesting suggestions, some completely different in their nature or objective, but we have been reading with attention what you said, and the main points will be noted on a document, so we can have a rapid and clear access to them.
At the moment, I see the main concerns are about fixing the current issues, which sounds logic and necessary as we need to have a proper and solid basis to push the development foward.
I have been able to separate two main issues you pointed out within your comments and a third being more general on the current gameplay between the capital ship classes.
1) NPCs Bumping Capital Ships:
Let's get this straight: this is certainly the most annoying issue currently within caps world and it has been the case for years. I don't know anyone who enjoys being flipped by some random stupid NPCs. Perhaps the 180° turn in 2 seconds is funny in some ways, it is clearly not when it happens constantly and especially during a battle. From my own experience, it literally can change the entire outcome of it.
That's why it has to be solved, and we understand that no proper development can be done without having this fixed, once and for all.
But this task won't be easy. Several attempts have already been made, all resulting in a desperate failure. But not all possible solutions have been explored yet and some have a potential. That why we encourage you to share your ideas -they have to be reasonable of course- with us, over here or Discord (some of you already proposed some ideas here), do not hesitate to ping for this, and details will be appreciated as well.
2) The relation between caps and snubs/bombers:
That's a fact, many snubs fights have been ruined because of caps interfering with them. And we believe it is high time to have a proper separation between caps and snubs.
(11-29-2020, 06:50 PM)Mephistoles Wrote: Remove all solaris turrets from the game outright without further delay. Take the plunge and do it now. They are griefing tools.
Change all cap guns above gunboat to do 1% damage to fighter and bomber shields, thus creating a dynamic where a snub can safely dive a cap while it has shields up, but is vulnerable with shields down, making it imperative a cap ship have support from smaller ships to be able to reliably fight them off. This also reduces the impact of snubs hugging a friendly capship while still maintaining the effectiveness of this strategy to at least an extent.
(11-29-2020, 07:18 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: I would rather snubs and caps are unable to touch each other outright.
When flying a fighter, it is very irritating having a good group fight going only for some drooling idiot to come along wanting easy kills in their cap disrupting the fun of all participants involved.
These two posts are quite interesting. It is entirely feasible to make snubs' shields virtually invincible against caps guns and it would solve the snub/caps issue quite elegantly. But like Lyth said, snubs then shouldn't be able to 'battle' the caps. For example VHF shields take 0.01x (random number) damage from cap guns and cap shields take 0.01x damage from VHF guns.
However, bombers should be excluded from that little trick if their role as anti-capital is kept unchanged. Otherwise, it would be entirely pointless to fly caps, as one bomber could destroy any capital ship alone thanks to their invulnerable shield, and therefore being lethal. Currently, two or three bombers are able to destroy any capital ship as @Boban pointed out here.
Nevertheless, these changes have the potential to allow us to live and enjoy a new world where snubs and caps can have their respective fun, without having the two classes interfering with one another.
And last but not least, everything else that has been mentionned, there are good propositions. I will personally not comment them from now, perhaps my two other collaborators can do that.
Well, as a capwhore I agree with this
If just VHF HF and LF have OP Shields vs caps it would make the game better
And I'd nerf bomber ones at the same time or buff anti snub capability for caps - right now you can just jump to bombers and kill caps with little risk of dying, and cap vs bomber/shf fights are pretty boring
so how are you supposed to kill fighters when alone? just watch them fly around you and do nothing? also how do you assist other fighter players if you cant help keep hostile fighters away from them? IMO i dont see most players being ok with this. removing Solaris turrets is fine, but making cap ship guns do no DPS to fighter shields seems to be canon / immersion breaking. what if a fighter player wants to troll or attack another player who has a allied capship in the area, but he can do nothing to help. i know im newer around here but as having played FL for a long time i dont fully understand how this makes people wanting to play caps have a more enjoyable time.
This would break immersion, IMHO. Not like there have been to s of skirmishes between fighters Nd caps but in fleet fights everyone should be able to shoot everyone. It would lead to quite stupid standoffs in teamfights when one side one with caps, other won with snubs, and inRP the outcome does not make sense. Yes, it sometimes happens even now but at least there are prospects to win. With mutual invulnerability these prospects would not exist.
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