Giving fighters a free pass to interdict caps but then just be able to sit around and not take any damage is just stupid. I'm sorry but it will just make people even saltier than they are now. Maybe a not-quite-insta on stuff like Mortars and stuff but the second you make fighter invulnerable to caps is the second you open the door to a fighter just CD-spamming a cruiser so that a dread can just cruise up and throttle it point blank.
Honestly, it'd make things worse than buttcloaking.
Power does not corrupt. Fear corrupts... perhaps the fear of a loss of power.
The biggest threats of snubs vs caps are solaris loadouts and the extreme range of TZ.
Being able to TZ out so far that any shot at the crosshair connects makes it easy for caps to take down a fighter that is focused on killing a bomber/enemy fighter.
If anything, I'd reduce the TZ range to half of what it currently is, or maybe add some type of gunner view, and as said before in this thread, remove solaris/high refire turrets for everything above GBs
And ye... the NPCs flipping caps or bigger ships in general.
Same for loot tbh...
(11-30-2020, 01:47 AM)Markam Wrote: Population zones can have their density adjusted to lower npc spam, but removal is a bit extreme.
They don't even need removed completely. Just make them spawn solely around stations/planets, and not chase more than 6k from where their path is.
Systems do have "ambient" npc zones that causes NPCs to spawn system wide, no matter where you are. Maybe removal of these ambient zones is an idea, as you wont meet npcs outside of specific patrol paths, jumpholes/gates and station/planets. Patrols paths include unlawful/lawful patrols, so you would not have zero npcs on the map, but you wont meet them off in some random corner that npcs have no logical reason to visit. Ambient zones also overlap all other zones, so that may add density.
The issue of chasing is based on the AI assigned to the NPC ship. There are other AI sets to assign, and for example Gunboats have fighter sets which makes them very aggressive/mobile, and we can give them cruiser AI so they mostly sit in formation/not chase, but we cannot give fighters cruiser AI, as that would be quite weird. TLDR; Not much we can do about the chasing as is.
(12-01-2020, 03:38 AM)Switchback Wrote: Giving fighters a free pass to interdict caps but then just be able to sit around and not take any damage is just stupid. I'm sorry but it will just make people even saltier than they are now. Maybe a not-quite-insta on stuff like Mortars and stuff but the second you make fighter invulnerable to caps is the second you open the door to a fighter just CD-spamming a cruiser so that a dread can just cruise up and throttle it point blank.
Honestly, it'd make things worse than buttcloaking.
Completely agreed with this. With the deployment of only a bunch of wild good fighter bois you can disrupt every attempt of fleet movement and engagement, discoraging Cap gameplay in no time. For events, like the last Titan event, this mechanic could make these unfeasable. Adding to that, if flipping is not solved, Caps players will have to endure trolls flipping their ships, until the sanction is made.
Also, as some already mentioned, it is immersion breaking. From my point of view, Caps are supposed to be feared by all, specially smaller ships...it doesn't make sense the investment in materials, research & development and manufacturing to make wonders of engineering that can't touch less sophisticated ships.
In defence of TZ... It makes commanding a fleet far easier to do as it lets you see everything rather well whilst its only other use is having an easier time shooting at snubs who are flying in a straight line. As we know the crosshair doesn't compensate for any movement that isn't a straight line.
As for pvp flying larger ships requires further TZ and sometimes in close quarters the game will target the hull and miss shots rather than targeting the crosshair and so turret zoom making the crosshair larger than the hull helps remedy this as you can target part of the crosshair and the shots will still be centered. Essentially just another bug work around.
I dont think snubs should be safe from capital ships, and if we wanted to make snubs safer than they currently are we should look and increasing speed, turn rate and weapon travel time of snubs instead changing how caps work to make an effective change to snubs.
(12-01-2020, 03:38 AM)Switchback Wrote: but the second you make fighter invulnerable to caps is the second you open the door to a fighter just CD-spamming a cruiser so that a dread can just cruise up and throttle it point blank.
okay but this is already the case, if you take damage from capital ships while cding you are doing something very very wrong. a snub is able to pin down a capital ship without any issues at any point.
let's put it into a perspective, if a snub uses train cds, they have 60 chances of pinning down a cruiser and above at 3k range with no issue whatsoever unless the person that is getting cd'd is spamming cms.
(11-30-2020, 06:58 PM)Val Wrote: Nevertheless, these changes have the potential to allow us to live and enjoy a new world where snubs and caps can have their respective fun, without having the two classes interfering with one another.
The question is, fun for who?
It will undoubtedly make the game more fun for snub pilots with 3+ years of conn training, perfectly tweaked rigs, no visual or other impairments, and enough friends with similar experience so they never have to side with anyone who doesn't, who enjoy absolutely obliterating everyone who doesn't have their level of experience and connections.
For those who don't have that, it will make things even less fun than it already is. Especially people who wanted to try an apparently cool feature of the mod, only to find out that they have basically been suckered into playing cannon fodder for more experienced players.
(11-30-2020, 06:58 PM)Val Wrote: Nevertheless, these changes have the potential to allow us to live and enjoy a new world where snubs and caps can have their respective fun, without having the two classes interfering with one another.
The question is, fun for who?
It will undoubtedly make the game more fun for snub pilots with 3+ years of conn training, perfectly tweaked rigs, no visual or other impairments, and enough friends with similar experience so they never have to side with anyone who doesn't, who enjoy absolutely obliterating everyone who doesn't have their level of experience and connections.
For those who don't have that, it will make things even less fun than it already is. Especially people who wanted to try an apparently cool feature of the mod, only to find out that they have basically been suckered into playing cannon fodder for more experienced players.
There is also the question of why do you play caps. Do you play caps because you want to shoot snubs, or do you play them to enjoy a kind of 'special' compared to snub ones and shooting caps?
However if you are relating to more average snubs players facing aces and with caps being unable to give them an efficient protection and support, it's not entirely true. At least not all the time.
As long as the snubs have their shield up, they cannot be beaten by caps guns. However, let's imagine someone's chasing another snub and the latter hugs the caps. Right now they cannot do anything. Nevertheless, if the attacked snub manages to deshield the aggressive snub, then it will be very vulnerable to caps and since they were very close from them, there are high risks that the aggressive snub takes a lot of a damage or die in the action.
The confidence that snubs may have after this potential change might be a kind of trap for them in some situations.
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