[Theoretical] Official Faction Challenge System

[Gardarik]

The NEMP system fizzled out and by the end of it's lifespan factions didn't really care for them nor did they really respond if they were the ones getting NEMP'd. What makes this any different?

I don't think this is suitable for the kind of game this is.

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What we have here is RP communism, and we need an RP open market finally (RP capitalism), and allow for some real player investment. Tear down the wall!

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Just to add to your metaphor. If you take down the wall and enforce free market without working institutions, such as judicial branch of power, impartial courts, stock exchange, equal access to privatisation and land markets, etc, what you get is not a prosperous free market country, but a country run by cliques of cronies and organised crime. Southern Italy in late 19th and early 20th centuries + post-Soviet and post-Yugoslavia countries + "decommunised" South East Asian countries + post-communist Latin American countries are vivid examples. This small dwelling on your metaphor is to illustrate that drastic change does not necessarily bring good. You are blaming on faction leaders, etc. Have you ever yourself created a sprawling faction and kept it active? Please correct me if my presupposition that you haven't is wrong. Then "maybe" people will be listening to you based on your experience. So far this looks like Jacque Fresco's "Project Venus" that looks cool but lacks scientific basis behind it.

[Lythrilux]

Thats a laughable excuse though. The NEMP system was literally discouraged and suppressed by faction leaders and staff who didnt want to have to compete with us dumb players when it came to unfolding events. The only faction I was ever in avoided them for that reason and avoided letting them be used. You guys really are cute for thinking we can patchwork the server to keep it going instead of applying a system to let players go to work doing more on their own for once.

What I was getting at is people would use their NEMPs to start events (like myself) but the factions and the community at large weren't really that interested in them. NEMP events became so rare because people just wouldn't log for them outside of silently powertrading whatever event commodity was needed to fix the affected base.

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[Saronsen]

Please cease and desist. It stopped being funny with the NEMP thing.

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User was banned for: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=202684
Time left: (Permanent)

[Omicron]

Cease and desist. You are broken record that advocates for arcade conquest that will inevitably lead to dominion of the few, to demise of everyone else who isn't considered part of the new pvp meta clique

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[Karst]

This is a different mod, or particularly a different server. It's totally do-able, but it is not Discovery.

This.
You're describing -in great detail- a totally different game.
This isn't an RTS and frankly we have way too much RTS player attitude already, players who think the goal is for their factions to "win" over other factions.

It's a roleplaying game. The goal is for players to play roles they enjoy and everyone to have fun.

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[Binski]

Thats a laughable excuse though. The NEMP system was literally discouraged and suppressed by faction leaders and staff who didnt want to have to compete with us dumb players when it came to unfolding events. The only faction I was ever in avoided them for that reason and avoided letting them be used. You guys really are cute for thinking we can patchwork the server to keep it going instead of applying a system to let players go to work doing more on their own for once.

What I was getting at is people would use their NEMPs to start events (like myself) but the factions and the community at large weren't really that interested in them. NEMP events became so rare because people just wouldn't log for them outside of silently powertrading whatever event commodity was needed to fix the affected base.

Yeah thats right, thats what happens when the system is designed to be a spin cycle to make players think they're getting something but are really working for nothing. That system was terrible. But it wasnt slowing down over lack of desire by players, there was a build up of events that went nowhere because the staff involved seem to have disliked it was even still a thing. So it was forcefully cut, many people were left holding the bag. Really, the way to have avoided all of that was just let them be pvp only weapons and worry about how to get factions to fight around stations another way.

Cease and desist. You are broken record that advocates for arcade conquest that will inevitably lead to dominion of the few, to demise of everyone else who isn't considered part of the new pvp meta clique

That's rich coming from one of the obvious anchors to this place. You are the one that has found your own way to conquer and dominate bud. Time for a shake up. All you have is to make it look bad, when this system is anything but arcade. Meanwhile you keeping the game only for mindless pews and fixed events keeps you where you are. You faction head devs are the only players that are as happy as you are with this place. And why? so you can rearrange things in your favor outside of the game. It should be obvious to anyone watching that many of you suppress an actual equally applied system for player factions out of fear you'll lose your positions of power. Meanwhile the Order, Core and Hessians would be the biggest threats to the server under that system, and you act like you havent lead the pvp meta clique yourself from time to time.

I mean, you would cut POB's. Somehow you missed that they saved this place and are one of the biggest allures to this place that's found nowhere else. They're one of the best concepts to Discovery in general, and only need a few adjustments to rebalance every so often. If we cut them the place would fall off a cliff. You think it would make players rush back? Or you want this place to shrink?

This is a different mod, or particularly a different server. It's totally do-able, but it is not Discovery.

This.
You're describing -in great detail- a totally different game.
This isn't an RTS and frankly we have way too much RTS player attitude already, players who think the goal is for their factions to "win" over other factions.

It's a roleplaying game. The goal is for players to play roles they enjoy and everyone to have fun.

Thats a weak argument. It being a roleplay server is exactly why we need more depth to our actions, more real activities with real value, and a real fluid sociological situation. Consider this people, we already have a silent system of factions dominating, so please dont act like this will be only to let some factions dominate via pvp. Discovery being RP doesn't mean it should be dead. Without something driving the place, we lose players, lose the point of continuing, and slowly lose the point to all the work done here.

The point is to make it so we can rp all of our actions along the way, and work on actual goals, to create ongoing situations that provide open ended gameplay/rp. At least there is then a system that everyone can see and scrutinize to make sure is fair, that can be used to govern what can be done or not done. People play a video game for a reason, those who only want to roleplay still have that option, and the option to go only RP playing dungeons and dragons.

Its a fundemental question of this place's existence. Without an accelerant, we only temporarily spike population once a day or once a week. Open it up and things will go back to being active during the day during the week, and even more on the weekends. If we finally put a system in place for more player gains, yes some factions will beef up, and thats the point! It will have a 'trickle down' effect and generate tons of related activity. Hotspots will naturally form, and shift around naturally.

Picture it this way, a faction could capture a station, so the headlines saying 'faction captures X station after surprise siege' will be real, actual player driven, commensurate to the amount of effort put into it. I see a rise of squabbling battles over border stations and controlling border jump gate IFF's as most likely occurances, and sieges of larger things more rare. But how can people fear more action, more reason to contribute? Hopefully we'll see a more refreshed player population, that now needs to get out of the caves and out into the server to keep themselves on top. The vets here have let the place go stagnant.

Under this system, it takes more than just a big group to win. And no win is gauranteed permanent, it could be lost just as fast, thats the beauty of it. Plus, if it was put in place we could move on to adding earnable bonuses that could be like cards to cash in for advantages to help each side slow down the battle. I guarantee if we put this system in place it would not be an overnight arcade conquest by any means. Instead people would get to work building their fortunes to invest in their chosen factions again! Think about it, the scidata must flow! "He who controls the scidata controls the universe" (Dune). This makes the scidata handlers like banks that control what factions can easily buy scidata. Think of the RP deals and diplomacy required! Perhaps we need a few more anomaly fields added, and just double the data you get per anomaly if it seems hard to acquire, and add a few other special ways to gain lump sums of scidata. Think of how controlling anomaly fields becomes more important, parolling them, and how keeping a faction economy healthy will be a thing. Just because this is a roleplay server doesn't mean it must be kept on lock forever.

[AuruemSaber]

another binski wall of text literally nobody asked for

stop it, get some help.

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[Binski]

another binski wall of text literally nobody asked for

stop it, get some help.

Useless contrarianism. This is the dirtiest form of posturing. I know, its insane in this day and age to expect people to read and write in complete sentences.

[Kauket]

I don't think allowing a planetside esque conquest system that is active everywhere at once is good.

Honestly it would only be good if there are empty systems that are designated as conquest systems. Entirely optional. Provides rewards for completing it, kinda like finishing dailies.

So basically systems with no bases, only resources, planets, whatever. Compete against another selected faction. Or we could make a pve dungeon of sorts and people need to find a "key" to get to the next system, which requires cooperation or fighting. Conquest might be a better one for the wild worlds.

Issue with competition is that it will be one faction of ace pvpers seal clubbing everyone else. Everyone has their own preferred factions and would be at loss from preferential bias.

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[Binski]

Issue with competition is that it will be one faction of ace pvpers seal clubbing everyone else. Everyone has their own preferred factions and would be at loss from preferential bias.

Conquest would be quite limited. It could be set so there is no expansion of ZOI, meaning a faction could rise to dominate a great deal of its ZOI if there is no opposition to it at all. Instead of PVP aces seal clubbing, it would all come down to the cap players. Fleets would rule. Only factions that really can deploy caps would have any real chance, and they are all countered by other factions with caps. Snubs would have a role but you'd not expect to siege a base with fighters or bombers, not very fast. In theory, factions that only go up to gunboat or cruiser could still buy their siege, but be limited to a much slower pace. Perhaps they'd be limited to harassing attacks on border stations or jump gates.

Please cease and desist. It stopped being funny with the NEMP thing.

@Saronsen take a look at the proposed rules again. Technically no one would be forced to grind for scidata. If you belong to a faction that might have a base at risk, you could easily fly for that faction or a larger faction that's allied and only ever find a need to fight to defend. So if your faction doesn't want to go after more, they don't need to. If they want to strike a deal with other OF's for a cease fire agreement then nothing would be stopping it. Otherwise, if you are willing to fly and fight for that faction, you can keep it the same and only need to fight to ward off attack. Places at higher risk can always be reinforced by POB's with weapons platforms (even a Core 1 can deploy a shield and two defense modules and be replaced rather quickly).

At the worst, an unpopulated faction, or one that can find no last minute volunteers, may lose some stations over time, left with only core stations. Players could, after some time, build up the faction to retake those stations in challenges. The way this is laid out is that it would not unfold at high speed, especially after scidata stocks are consumed in the beginning. Then, yeah it may take a while to build up data for an attack. That's to control things and stretch out the process. Because of the player population, there could only be so many active enough factions posing any real chance of change at any given time. Even if 3-4 factions were active, the rest of the player base can either join in to defend or not. Eventually things would settle a bit again, but there would be a thing where every so often players would build up data, plan (RP for allies) and execute a move to capture a base, and it would lead to a real siege. Story that writes itself! I see that as more immersive, and guarantees there will never be 'nothing to do' on this server for the rest of its days.