(06-26-2021, 09:10 AM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Okay maybe people should just grow a pair of balls and not cry every time they die in pvp? That is how cap aces even became cap aces in the first place. Trying again and again. And unless its a huge ***** of idk, 10v1 again or w/e other ridiculous fight could happen, it's not the end of the world. People who get angry cause they died in PvP once shouldn't quit, they should just ask for a lil bit of advice. If they do actually quit, that's their problem. Not a single multiplayer game out there is forgiving, if I can say it that way, to newcomers. You learn through experience.
Excuse the not very polite language but it's just the truth at this point with the mod. As Saro pointed out earlier, 490389493859 people crying on forum that they died once in PvP and they're now quitting only makes the overall experience worse.
I just told you how e.g. one of the hardest to master games like Dota2 work - no matter what your skill level is you hit at least 40% winrate after calibration - this is what we are competing with. The game PvP is harder than Disco, much more complex, yet newbies stay because they get their successes along the way of learning.
(06-26-2021, 09:10 AM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Okay maybe people should just grow a pair of balls and not cry every time they die in pvp? That is how cap aces even became cap aces in the first place. Trying again and again. And unless its a huge ***** of idk, 10v1 again or w/e other ridiculous fight could happen, it's not the end of the world. People who get angry cause they died in PvP once shouldn't quit, they should just ask for a lil bit of advice. If they do actually quit, that's their problem. Not a single multiplayer game out there is forgiving, if I can say it that way, to newcomers. You learn through experience.
Excuse the not very polite language but it's just the truth at this point with the mod. As Saro pointed out earlier, 490389493859 people crying on forum that they died once in PvP and they're now quitting only makes the overall experience worse.
I just told you how e.g. one of the hardest to master games like Dota2 work - no matter what your skill level is you hit at least 40% winrate after calibration - this is what we are competing with. The game PvP is harder than Disco, much more complex, yet newbies stay because they get their successes along the way of learning.
The games are drastically different, why are you comparing those two?
And again, disco especially isn't forgiving to newbies simply due to the fact that the balance focuses heavily on experience. If you wish to get a kill just call 1-2 more friends in caps and press shift + w to 200m to see "balance".
This is standard modern PvP - you compared other multiplayer games - "not a single multiplayer game out there is forgiving". it is normal and standard that multiplayer games have matchmaking and newbies have okay-ish winrates once they calibrate to where they belong.
If we want to compete, make new guys that can just fuckoff to those games stay, we need to do that personally with handicaps as players and the game mechanic is old and amount of players limited. Like I said look at Venemon for someone who does it well.
The "vets" don't realize how wide spread matchmaking is getting, that wasn't the case 10 years ago - like now it's hard to fathom for a newer guy when I tell him "we won't win any fights, our goal is to get a blue or two" when they are used to just have back and forths in just about any other modern PvP game out there no matter what their skill level is.
imagine comparing an incomplete game slated to be released in 1999 that had its entire story and most of its mechanics axed and then remade within a year to modern multiplayer games that have a boatload of money and skilled developers behind them
We can't, that's the point - we will never have those mechanics, or numbers, so it's on players to realize they need to do it themselves using in-game handicaps. There's nothing the dev team or balance can do. Look at Gran - does that by flying into 1v3s etc. with basic AU BC into noobs :]
And still has >> 1:1 kill death ratios
Offer to train the players, involve them into the game, give them a reason to keep at it and maybe they'll stay or even join you.
Aces handicapping themselves is not the solution, in my opinion.
I mean aces do it already, many snub ones ask for 1v2s even 1v3s etc. if they know the opposition is weak.
People like Gran and Wisetaurus fly into unfavourable situations - this is nothing new, just needs to be a bit more commonplace to make newer guys stay.
And this is no theory - I'm telling you why people quit even when you do offer training. Not getting any kills for months on end while dying nonstop isn't fun, and while it could work 5+ years ago it just doesn't in the modern PvP game matchmaking ladscape and shortening attention spans
Little reminder that ganking won't make you learning/improving whatsoever. Receiving the help from friends to face harder and skilled opponents is fine, but if you want to get better, you'll have to leave this comfortable niche and be masochistic a bit, i.e making the effort to fight players stronger than you on your own. That way you can observe, experience and understand how they work, their methods and techniques so you get better by the time. This supposes to accept defeat and spend time on training however. Not everyone is ready or able to that. And this is fine as well. If a player always wants to stay on the overwhelming side, then it's fine, but under the condition that this player doesn't complain when he's experiencing what he constantly does to the others. It's just a matter of responsibilities and honesty.
It's not about ganking - but e.g. if you see a new guy on a GB run into his CAU8 with basic AU GB, or fight him in a bomber or freighter or transport. A snub ace sees newer group he can ask in Rp for 1v3 etc etc. So the chance of winning nears at least reasonable ratios.
This leads to close fights and learning too, and many people do it already - it's at least some substitute for the million dollar game matchmaking systems in just about any modern PvP game we compete with - we kinda need this to happen more so newer guys stay.
So many just leave soon after moving into PvP sadly.
(06-25-2021, 11:00 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: The problem kinda is that they spend a long time to farm for a ship, then explore with it, and when they get bored and want to try PvP they get sealclubbed. Over and over and over and over again, after rising through trading and PvE for a long time they hit this huge wall. People will tell em to "git gud" but thet just quit because there are more fun PvP games out there. Games with matchmaking. how to fix it? PvP mechanics are *****, it needs to come from the goodwill of the community. But I'm pretty sure 90% + would look at the paragraph above this one and not only would never do those things, but would call me toxic for thinking they should be standard.
This is the sad reality of Freelancer. The PvP has never been easy for most, even people who have played for years on end often fail to do many of the things that the "good" PvPers can and will do. But honestly, I think that is to be expected. We're playing a game from 2003 after all, it is only natural that there is going to be a big skill and learning curve, even after Balance has made PvP more accessible now than it has ever been before.
like all games, right? I don't know any pvp game that is "easy" for beginner players.
