My god.. some people are really disconnected from reality here. I thought this whole thread was about attracting new players that never played before.. and NOT how to make disco more fun for YOU.
and people talk about PoB's - Cap's and PoB defense..how is this connected with new player count? How would they even participate in PoB defense?
New players log in for the first time -> Now what? Let's start from here. Now what? How do you retain them? What can they do and why would they return?
(06-27-2021, 01:39 PM)Binski Wrote: "I think" and "I imagine" because the only simulation I can do is in my head so far, since it hasn't been allowed to be tried so the issue could be totally put to rest. You really want me to walk into the quicksand that is a poll or survey here? Its not really necessary, its pretty scientific about how to increase activity, its just terribly difficult for some players to judge the game without the bias of their involvement. Since the devs never really ask or run by changes to the community, I don't actually say to change that. How about we try it for 6 months and then I'll conduct some polls and surveys? You can't blame me for inaction, I'm hitting the ceiling on what can be done without help from admins or devs.
I would ignore the other parts, I bet they have been answered (or will be expanded upon) eloquently by Karlotta. I would just like to point your attention to the word "scientifically". As a person who holds academia and scientific method dearly, and who practices it on a daily basis, I cannot ignore your invoking the word "scientific" in such a way. You do not provide any empirical evidence, such as the results of testing or modelling your suggested system, hence what you are doing is mere theorising. You dismiss even the basic polling, thus speaking on behalf of other people, thus decreasing the representability of your claims even further. Whether baseless or not, you cannot make claims that you have the revolutionary exceptional knowledge (in this case it is about how to increase the population / activity) without any testable, repeatable, and falsifiable proofs. This is not scientific. What you are doing is speculating with wishful thinking. I do not mind, this is not a University or a lab. But please, henceforth stay clear of using the word "scientific" when elaborating how effective your methods and ideas are.
(06-27-2021, 02:22 PM)Shimamori Wrote: I would ignore the other parts, I bet they have been answered (or will be expanded upon) eloquently by Karlotta. I would just like to point your attention to the word "scientifically". As a person who holds academia and scientific method dearly, and who practices it on a daily basis, I cannot ignore your invoking the word "scientific" in such a way.
Nah, I'm gonna write stuff for my own "save disco thread" instead. This here is pointless.
Or maybe check my emails, at least I know that SOME people care about things I write.
(06-27-2021, 02:22 PM)Shimamori Wrote: I would ignore the other parts, I bet they have been answered (or will be expanded upon) eloquently by Karlotta. I would just like to point your attention to the word "scientifically". As a person who holds academia and scientific method dearly, and who practices it on a daily basis, I cannot ignore your invoking the word "scientific" in such a way.
Nah, I'm gonna write stuff for my own "save disco thread" instead. This here is pointless.
Or maybe check my emails, at least I know that SOME people care about things I write.
Kudos to you for that, a person of science is to be appreciated. Just adding that nothing in the quote above was pointing at you, to avoid misunderstanding.
(06-27-2021, 02:17 PM)StyleR Wrote: My god.. some people are really disconnected from reality here. I thought this whole thread was about attracting new players that never played before.. and NOT how to make disco more fun for YOU.
and people talk about PoB's - Cap's and PoB defense..how is this connected with new player count? How would they even participate in PoB defense?
New players log in for the first time -> Now what? Let's start from here. Now what? How do you retain them? What can they do and why would they return?
I think that PoBs can have a role in retention, and as an activity driver. But you do have a good point as well, we have to attract new players before we can worry about retention.
Thinking on some other games, what attracts players to them, and what is possible in Freelancer, it's a very difficult situation. The mechanics are dated, to be charitable, and a lot of the add-on functionality is very clumsy from a UX perspective (entering jump drive coordinates for one). In my opinion the best option is the opportunity to "be part of something big". Every time EVE has a big battle, or some major heist it makes gaming headlines and drives new players. I don't think a similar player run empire model would work here, but I have an alternative proposition.
The Nomad Crisis
Kind of similar to the idea of factions fighting over territory, but PvPvE instead of just PvP. A big nomad offensive, lead by staff controlled or AI nomads. Every week or so they make an advance into a system, starting from one of the Omicrons. A hook on the server to track kills, and make a sort of score board by how many kills each faction gets. Depending on how the battles go the nomads could advance to a neighboring system, have their advance halted, or even be cleared from a system. If you've played Stellaris, imagine an end-game crisis.
Importantly, let all IDs participate. So even Brettonia could send ships to the front to help in the effort, with all of the RP and PvP options that would present. Say the Rheinland frontier is threatened. Would Gallia come to aid them, or let the Nomads take care of a potential rival?
Importantly it would be a big unified goal that everyone could participate in, cooperatively or competitively. And with it, the potential for big, meaningful, lasting changes. And it would require people to log in and play to have an effect.
(06-27-2021, 02:17 PM)StyleR Wrote: [...] New players log in for the first time -> Now what? Let's start from here. Now what? How do you retain them? What can they do and why would they return?
The main questions that need answering here.
From the perspective of a new player such as myself, being involved in something and feeling like you can make an impact or have an objective to work towards (that isn't just "acquire big boat") is very important; I may have mentioned that somewhere already, but factions - official and otherwise - could, and perhaps should, seek out these new players and offer them a place to stay, learn the ropes and contribute to the faction in turn.
What they could do would depend on the faction in question, of course, but the main point here is engaging and involving them; if left to their own devices, they'll end up going the route of the dreaded 'lolwuts' and eventually get tired of it.
(06-27-2021, 05:58 PM)CommodoreShawn Wrote: I think that PoBs can have a role in retention, and as an activity driver. But you do have a good point as well, we have to attract new players before we can worry about retention.
The Nomad Crisis
Kind of similar to the idea of factions fighting over territory, but PvPvE instead of just PvP. A big nomad offensive, lead by staff controlled or AI nomads. Every week or so they make an advance into a system, starting from one of the Omicrons. A hook on the server to track kills, and make a sort of score board by how many kills each faction gets. Depending on how the battles go the nomads could advance to a neighboring system, have their advance halted, or even be cleared from a system. If you've played Stellaris, imagine an end-game crisis.
Importantly, let all IDs participate. So even Brettonia could send ships to the front to help in the effort, with all of the RP and PvP options that would present. Say the Rheinland frontier is threatened. Would Gallia come to aid them, or let the Nomads take care of a potential rival?
Importantly it would be a big unified goal that everyone could participate in, cooperatively or competitively. And with it, the potential for big, meaningful, lasting changes. And it would require people to log in and play to have an effect.
That is a lovely idea, I have to say, and the recent Nomad RP threads do seem to be pointing in the direction of something big going on, or about to happen. Would love to see it implemented!
How we see perfect Discovery mod. A user can play unlawfuls, lawfuls and nomads. And if a user is playing unlawfuls, then unlawfuls in asteroids; they are being raided by lawful pilots and nomads. You can rob caravans. And unlawfuls, since in asteroids, then make radiations there. You can build bases, trade and other possibilities like in EVE. And caps exploding with leaving debris. Can jump and etc. If playing lawfuls, then you should listen to your commander and protect bases from nomads and wilds, unlawfuls, go to raids on someone of them (unlawfuls, nomads). If as a nomad, then unlawfuls and lawfuls sometimes attack, user is commander himself, can do whatever they want, order wilds to attack the base and they will. Ther are 4 zones in the game. I mean, a map with 4 zones: 1 zone is neutral, 2nd is lawul, 3rd is unlawful and 4th is nomad (in omicrons, where is old dyson sphere).
Also, so there could not just explode, but also break a wing, and if user won't repair it - they will explode, same with breaking cockpit glass, but user won't explode, and just stop seeing half of the screen, or get or buy modules...
(06-27-2021, 01:39 PM)Binski Wrote: "I think" and "I imagine" because the only simulation I can do is in my head so far, since it hasn't been allowed to be tried so the issue could be totally put to rest. You really want me to walk into the quicksand that is a poll or survey here? Its not really necessary, its pretty scientific about how to increase activity, its just terribly difficult for some players to judge the game without the bias of their involvement. Since the devs never really ask or run by changes to the community, I don't actually say to change that. How about we try it for 6 months and then I'll conduct some polls and surveys? You can't blame me for inaction, I'm hitting the ceiling on what can be done without help from admins or devs.
I would ignore the other parts, I bet they have been answered (or will be expanded upon) eloquently by Karlotta. I would just like to point your attention to the word "scientifically". As a person who holds academia and scientific method dearly, and who practices it on a daily basis, I cannot ignore your invoking the word "scientific" in such a way. You do not provide any empirical evidence, such as the results of testing or modelling your suggested system, hence what you are doing is mere theorising. You dismiss even the basic polling, thus speaking on behalf of other people, thus decreasing the representability of your claims even further. Whether baseless or not, you cannot make claims that you have the revolutionary exceptional knowledge (in this case it is about how to increase the population / activity) without any testable, repeatable, and falsifiable proofs. This is not scientific. What you are doing is speculating with wishful thinking. I do not mind, this is not a University or a lab. But please, henceforth stay clear of using the word "scientific" when elaborating how effective your methods and ideas are.
Immature whining is all I hear. Its funny how many arguments I make over the last few years about people taking all sorts of stances regardless of empirical evidence. Anyway, I used my own 'method' to study our situation by giving it some thought, and I have layed out a clear logic to be tested that can't be, and thats not my fault. I'd test my hypothesis tomorrow if it were up to me.
I can't believe the effort some go to to fight it too, and you think I'm the one with an ego problem. Nitpicking over that is petty. Education is nothing without intelligence. Think critically about our situation and not just with bias of an RP heavy or pvp heavy player. What I am fairly versed in is logic and making arguments. I do believe my arguments are valid and would prove to be sound when it comes to my change suggestions. Its hard not to think about the game and analyze it just by playing for almost a decade. To me, its you that is doing the wishful thinking, and reveal a subconscious opposition through actions that are simple posturing, pressure adding, running interference, etc, where you could otherwise have only observed. Are you that afraid someone might agree with me? So, I'll use it as a general term all I like, I wasn't claiming I took it to a lab and did write ups as I went. I did that all in my head. If you took it that way, I apologize for that. I have often irritated people by demonstrating what can be achieved despite of a lack of recognized acedemia.
What kind of scientist are you anyways? When did you graduate? From where? You can back up your claim right?
(06-27-2021, 02:17 PM)StyleR Wrote: [...] New players log in for the first time -> Now what? Let's start from here. Now what? How do you retain them? What can they do and why would they return?
From the perspective of a new player such as myself, being involved in something and feeling like you can make an impact or have an objective to work towards (that isn't just "acquire big boat") is very important; I may have mentioned that somewhere already, but factions - official and otherwise - could, and perhaps should, seek out these new players and offer them a place to stay, learn the ropes and contribute to the faction in turn.
What they could do would depend on the faction in question, of course, but the main point here is engaging and involving them; if left to their own devices, they'll end up going the
You're going the wrong way. Server needs to be set up in a way that new players can do something fun and meaningful without being dependent on factions or external source of information like the forums or discords, at least in the start. What are they supposed to do? Wait for some vet player to log in and then beg for help? No.
Also more GM events where the guy logs on admin and spawns nomad ships from the console is not the way. Game needs to be self-sustainable. Newcomers need to understand the basics enough, right off the bat they need to know its a RP server and that they need to pick a play style, lawful/unlawful, trader, pirate, bounty hunter .. This is the scope that needs ton of working. What can they do as a starting point that is fun, has decent payoff and is solo doable? Current answer is absolutely nothing..
Work on NPC convoy's, missions, meaningful trading system outside ores, bounty hunter and pirate play style payoffs etc..
![[Image: H0Kz6c5.png]](https://i.imgur.com/H0Kz6c5.png)
