Research Module: Why not add a SciData producing module to POB's?

[darkwind]

@CommodoreShawn

Feel free to code this and submit to devs

Is there a guide somewhere on how to do that? Like the API to target, language, etc?
I have an idea I could try prototyping.

public repository is available
I will add instruction how to setup development environment a bit later / feel free to ping me in Discord Darkwind#7896 for reminding.
Basically you need to have Vistual Studio 2017-2019 I think (both could be compatible), last time I worked with it through Visual Studio Enterprise 2019 if I remember correctly.

pob plugin is written in C++, and it is more or less only C++.
at the same time FLHook is reverse-engineered thing, so at its core Assemble language, which you can encounter from time to time at the level of C++ Assemble code insertions, but POB Plugin is 99.5% free from assemble.
I worked with it without knowing assemble language.

here you can find everything related to PoB

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[Binski]

I admit I can't, wish I could, but anyone who can would be doing the place a big favor. I'm just good with consumption ratios and theorizing activities with practical applications.

Never too late to learn. Begin today and make your dream true!

I'll take that as, you like the idea! And don't worry, my dreams coming true are inevitable anyways!

It's an interesting idea, but I worry it might just further entrench power in those groups who already have established "un-siegable" PoBs. Especially if you removed the current sci-data mining mechanics.

It wouldn't effect the base strength or defense capability. But it would mean people with existing bases could divert a module into scidata research. Now maybe the numbers I gave are too high, it could be reduced, or the costs of things could go up. That part can be played with, but it would be true that existing bases that decide to be used for research may have their strategic value go way up. Its true that already fortified bases could start being used for data. At the same time, we could easily connect the use of the scidata to things for factions, meaning scidata could have more than economic value, and when you know a faction is saving data, it means they're up to something! So, if you want to control a faction's ability to do larger scale stuff, you'd have to try to slow them down by preventing their base from being supplied as much, or try to take out the base.

I think this would be a good direction to go either way, we'll just need more stuff to redeem the scidata for. But if its useful stuff, and ideally story propelling actions, that would keep consumption going and hopefully people happily working to make it all happen.

Yet I know some would be concerned with, do we acknowledge what goes on on a POB? We used to, and I think it makes sense to. So just like if you are manufacturing cloaks or JD's, it would require policing to make sure bases researching scidata are even legal to do so.

[Groshyr]

I'll take that as, you like the idea! And don't worry, my dreams coming true are inevitable anyways!

Here, some documentation for you to start learning C++ today!

[Karst]

The difficult part of such a system (same as with any factory/processing pob system) is how to balance it by region.

Proximity to the source of the commodity necessary for production would give a massive advantage or disadvantage depending on the location of the base. Additionally, if only one commodity from one source is required, the process becomes almost entirely automated and risk-free since you can simply put a pob directly outside the source. If there's no travel involved, the process generates no activity.

Meanwhile if you do require goods from multiple sources, you'd have to balance the system so it doesn't disproportionately favor or disfavor a house or region - you couldn't, say, have one source in Kusari but none in the other houses.

Coding this would probably be easy, but balancing it would be a lot harder.

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[Czechmate]

Easy - make special commodities for research stations and force to combine them - people'd need to host great lengths to.combine research materials from far away bases, balance would be less of an issue as being closer to one base/commodity means the others are farther


I.e. Say you need research data from ames and from cologne research base to produce Sci data. Doesn't matter where you are between the 2 points much as long as you are on the way

The balance already exists with batteries and farm locations

[Karst]

That's the basic idea, yeah, but I wouldn't call figuring out the details of this "easy".

I played around with this concept before (for a credit-producing pob system, but the concept is the same). It was basically a cyclical route around the houses, in which each house produces one good and requires two others. So, a pob in any house would have two necessary supply routes.
Now in a system that produces a commodity that's sold at a fixed location, you can simply calculate the price by the total trip length from the suppliers, but since scidata is worth the same everywhere, you'd have to either use that total time as a basis to calculate the production rate for different, regional circuits, or have a single system that sources from everywhere, or everywhere that's being considered for balance, anyway.

That's certainly doable, but the problem with suggestions like these is that they're essentially just cool concepts that nobody then bothers to figure out real numbers for, and thus they rarely go anywhere.

Edit: You're right that this problem already exists, and arguably shows the difficulties of such systems. However, this is pretty different from batteries, because regions have little influence on the presence of an individual corvo the way they do on a pob. And it's a similar situation with capfarmers, since the main time investment is in the farming, not in any sort of travel. Regions affect pobs far more, since if for example, you would have to build a pob in Liberty for part of some factory process, the government and general playerbase of Liberty would have dramatic influence over your ability to use the system.

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[Binski]

That's the basic idea, yeah, but I wouldn't call figuring out the details of this "easy".

I played around with this concept before (for a credit-producing pob system, but the concept is the same). It was basically a cyclical route around the houses, in which each house produces one good and requires two others. So, a pob in any house would have two necessary supply routes.
Now in a system that produces a commodity that's sold at a fixed location, you can simply calculate the price by the total trip length from the suppliers, but since scidata is worth the same everywhere, you'd have to either use that total time as a basis to calculate the production rate for different, regional circuits, or have a single system that sources from everywhere, or everywhere that's being considered for balance, anyway.

That's certainly doable, but the problem with suggestions like these is that they're essentially just cool concepts that nobody then bothers to figure out real numbers for, and thus they rarely go anywhere.

Edit: You're right that this problem already exists, and arguably shows the difficulties of such systems. However, this is pretty different from batteries, because regions have little influence on the presence of an individual corvo the way they do on a pob. And it's a similar situation with capfarmers, since the main time investment is in the farming, not in any sort of travel. Regions affect pobs far more, since if for example, you would have to build a pob in Liberty for part of some factory process, the government and general playerbase of Liberty would have dramatic influence over your ability to use the system.

Well I figure it could go one of two ways, we could set one or two of the minable commodities as the only things that could be used, and would probably mean that the farther away from the Houses you get, the harder it would be to ship the materials across a route to bring them to the outer lying systems. That could be a good way to do it.

Or it could be set to consume almost any mineable commodity, even xeno relics, irridium, etc, so that every region has a local option to make use of.

Or it could be set to require a mixture of commodities from all over the server. That wouldnt be so bad, as if you are determined to do it on your own, you could zip around the server lookiing to fill your shopping list. In that case some materials would be the easy ones to get, others would be harder. Third parties could always fill the gaps for supply.

I would be ok with any of these really. For the most part I pictured maybe just using ores and gas (so no pscrap or relics most likely, but even sairs should be able to come across some irridium or uranium(?) out there right?) Even if not, then it just means each area has a 'somewhat' local option, which means players can go risk nabbing the stuff on their own, or try to buy it from players who can mine them easier.

It could give rise to some new FL operations who could be used for unlawfuls to get access to ores or gas they can't mine themselves with any bonus. Perhaps legit third parties, but no one would really be able to stop Outcasts or Corsairs players from forming a FL front company to fetch ores for research purposes. There'd be some business to be made there either way for sure.

[LuckyOne]

I like the concept, but as already mentioned balancing it could be a problem.

Would it be possible to sprinkle (one) of the needed commodities as PvE zone drops in various Nomad infested systems?

Would maybe get more activity there and encourage people to start farming Nomad remains again, or at least log to stop farmers.