Lawful IDs rework proposal

[Saronsen]

Actually, no, it was an LPI- /nodocking my Liberty Rogue fighter at a Junker base.

actually impossible. they can only nodock you from lawful bases. im not arguing in bad faith, youre just a liar lmfao. youre arguing things that not only didnt happen, theyre only real in your mind.
unless you ACTUALLY thought nodock stopped you from docking on unlawful bases, and that opens another can of ignorance, and means you've experienced it so infrequently, you have no idea how it works.

[Shimamori]

[You do realize that this is effectively the same problem faced by any pirate faction going after traders? The trader can always try to get away from you, you have to drop the minimum roleplay, they might ditch out of a trade lane and take an alternate route to avoid you, etc. If you're playing pirate in an area without trade lanes, it's all guesswork anyway. Likewise for a law enforcement player. Anyone who really wants to avoid contact can always take a longer, more circuitous route—at some opportunity cost, of course.

This is what the game is. Law enforcement isn't special in this regard.

Exactly like you said, it isn't special. So why would a player choose something so mundane and boring as police to play? isn't it what this whole thread is about? It is common knowledge that people opt for unlawful because those offer more variability in their RP and because psychologically people in games tend to play what they do not or cannot do in real life, hence being a pirate/criminal is more popular and rewarding than doing the stereotypically boring "Stop right there, you criminal scum!". Idk about others people playing with a police ID, but I don't even bother lately chasing smugglers even if I see then on /net because those encounters are very plain, boring, and unrewarding in general. But at least you see them and have a choice. As for pirates - there is a separate thread about the pirate gameplay, your bringing them up here is just another case of whataboutism. You made a point that without /nodock and /net police gameplay should become better. I would suggest you sticking to your point and trying elaborating why it is a good choice further, because so far your argument is very shallow.

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[Kauket]

Actually, no, it was an LPI- /nodocking my Liberty Rogue fighter at a Junker base.

actually impossible. they can only nodock you from lawful bases. im not arguing in bad faith, youre just a liar lmfao. youre arguing things that not only didnt happen, theyre only real in your mind.
unless you ACTUALLY thought nodock stopped you from docking on unlawful bases, and that opens another can of ignorance, and means you've experienced it so infrequently, you have no idea how it works.

that was actually possible sometime ago because it encompassed all bases in Liberty, and the OFL would get into serious trouble if they abused it. and this is a case of abuse cause they only supposed to use it on lawful bases

[Grumblesaur]

Actually, no, it was an LPI- /nodocking my Liberty Rogue fighter at a Junker base.

actually impossible. they can only nodock you from lawful bases. im not arguing in bad faith, youre just a liar lmfao. youre arguing things that not only didnt happen, theyre only real in your mind.

It might not be possible now, but it did happen. Years ago at this point. Sorry I don't keep my receipts for internet tough guys. But you don't really care about anything other than making sure you have all the shiny toys you like and baring your teeth and beating your chest at anyone who disagrees with your narrow-minded blabbering.

Anyway, you've done nothing to argue in favor of keeping /nodock around, so maybe we should just move this to flood?

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Saronsen]

It might not be possible now, but it did happen. Years ago at this point. Sorry I don't keep my receipts for internet tough guys. But you don't really care about anything other than making sure you have all the shiny toys you like and baring your teeth and beating your chest at anyone who disagrees with your narrow-minded blabbering.

ah, so something that inconvenienced you i assume, what, nearly a decade ago, should be removed because it was an issue for you back then? and hasn't been an issue since? i'm still not seeing a good argument in favor of removing it either besides an unintended side effect of sloppy flhook code that upset you once upon a time.
for what reason would you play police if you take away any of their perks, when you could just play freelancer and get paid for doing it while not flashing a "Police" IFF at every criminal around?

[Grumblesaur]

[baseless claims of whataboutism]

It's not "whataboutism" because it's the exact same kind of interaction once you strip away the lore dressing from it. Pirate vs. Trader is mechanically identical to Law Enforcement vs. Smuggler; any argument that applies to one applies to the other. Getting information handed to you just for mounting one ID instead of another is ludicrous because it abstracts away strategy and active play for one set of players and not another.

Chasing and hunting and outwitting your adversary is part of the game (and, I think, a worthwhile beyond-visual-range interaction). Handing that to players robs them of this gameplay loop, and it's definitely made too many of them soft if anyone thinks keeping these braindead mechanics is a good idea.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Shimamori]

[baseless claims of whataboutism]

It's not "whataboutism" because it's the exact same kind of interaction once you strip away the lore dressing from it. Pirate vs. Trader is mechanically identical to Law Enforcement vs. Smuggler; any argument that applies to one applies to the other. Getting information handed to you just for mounting one ID instead of another is ludicrous because it abstracts away strategy and active play for one set of players and not another.

Chasing and hunting and outwitting your adversary is part of the game (and, I think, a worthwhile beyond-visual-range interaction). Handing that to players robs them of this gameplay loop, and it's definitely made too many of them soft if anyone thinks keeping these braindead mechanics is a good idea.

While I agree in essence, I must draw your attention back to my argument and, should your hermeneutics fail you, my slow friend, remind you about the point of this thread that for some reason keeps eluding your cognition. It is exactly because the police and the pirates are mechanically identical on top of pirates having higher flat popularity that the police factions are dead. The point of this thread is to discuss potential ways of making police gameplay more distinct from pirates and, thus provide more incentives to people considering playing the lawfuls. IMHO, taking away the few perks that the police has is making the police even more similar to pirates in terms of gameplay, which defeats the whole point of this thread. This said, I reiterate my question that, similarly to the point of this thread, somehow keeps eluding you: what is your point and how does it matter?

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[Shinju]

Remove NET and you actually have nerfed LN ID. Does not sound like improvement altogether.

I play LPI and I've got fun with /net, you can coordinate yourself with other lawfuls while chasing people, informing them where they are and where are they possibly going.

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[Omi]

Serious question: does any of this 'lawfuls vs unlawfuls' gameplay actually happen anymore on the server? The place looks like it's on the same life support it's been on for years now. I kind of want to engage with the arguments here, but I genuinely can't tell if this is some kind of thought exercise or state of large-scale denial, because unless there's been a renaissance of sorts in the past two and a half years (and it doesn't look like there has been, but I'm happy to be proven wrong!), none of this stuff actually happens anymore. Right?

What really blows my mind, though, is seeing stuff like this said apparently in full seriousness:

... forcing a smuggler to log off before reaching their destination is a victory ...

Chasing and hunting and outwitting your adversary is part of the game (and, I think, a worthwhile beyond-visual-range interaction). Handing that to players robs them of this gameplay loop

Does anyone actually enjoy these aspects of trying to play the game? That's another serious question, because the one thing that felt like it had nailed the coffin of my time here on Discovery shut was that I literally could not find anyone to interact with for the majority of the day, multiple days in a row -- at least not in any organic sense, because I don't count marshalling up the boys for an off-plane closed clique 'roleplay' session about Nomads and jump drives and whatever else to be worth the time it takes to log on.

Searching through the player list for someone to encounter isn't gameplay. It's a hoop you have to jump through to find one of the last grains of rice left in the bowl, but there's nothing fun, engaging, or worthwhile about tabbing between the interactive nav-map and the player list to try and ambush someone. There never has been except in niche circumstances.

As for the idea that getting someone else to stop playing the game entirely constitutes 'winning' -- I don't know, man. The server looks like it's sputtering along at 20-30 players in peak hours, so I think it's pretty suspicious to claim that knocking another one off that number is in any way worth it.

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[Erremnart]

I would allow even indie police to /nodock lawful and in-House corporate bases within the House space, while taking away anything bigger than a GB. If you want to call-in heavier assistance, call the Navy.

Navy could engage only reds within the borders - if they want to do a full lawful job like fines, they'd need a policeman with them.

Intels probably don't need large caps too - again, if you want a heavy support, call-in the grunts (Navy).

As for criminals, Lane Hackers seem to be perfect candidates for unlawful /net commands within their ZOI to monitor civilian and lawful traffic. They do it in the lore already.

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