Version 5.0 "Fire and Fortune" - Everything I DISLIKED Part 1 - Balance and Stuff

[Kaisershadow34]

the npc missions are practically impossible, good luck completing a fighter mission as a fighter for some reason npc's regenerate their shield too fast and also if you get hit in the hull the energy doesn't regenerate as fast, making a comeback very difficult. which sucks because i like to do missions and also i play alone so fuck this, make missions great again.

[Redcroft]

I do fighter missions solo, did not see any of those problems!

[Demonic]

Not all fighter missions are as tough. The main offenders are missions agains Xeno snubs.

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Links
Characters and feedback | Freelancer's Woes | MacRory's Irregulars

[Kaisershadow34]

Not all fighter missions are as tough. The main offenders are missions agains Xeno snubs.

yeah wtf this guys, cardamine overdose is the only answer

[Uknown]

Well i found doing missions in a VHF nearly impossible sometimes, the NPCs have such extreme aim i am unable to match, plus having to kill their ridiculous amount of mines they drop at you and hit you almost instantly even if thrusting ...
I was in fighter mission against the idiot LWB NPCs, it was wave to wave to wave, by the 3rd wave (i belived i finish it) only to receive the "Hey, you got more enemies at the next waypoint" with a ship at 50% health, shielded, but only 1 nanobot and like 3 shield batteries ...
In that next wave i just died due LWB pushing like 9 ships at same time ... it was a mess get against them ... and it was not even the higher lvl fighter ones, it was a Lvl 23 or so ¬¬ but of course, deploying kinda the best of the best tactics with high lvl fighters ... it really hurts xD

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✨ ⇝ Nanosinx#1541 ⇜ ✨

[Dark Chocolate]

Sure.
Blaster dps is similar to tachyon
Mauler dps is slightly less than Impacts, but it has more projectile speed.
Repeaters have worst dps but they have high projectile speed in cruiser heavies

But If you want it see, i will make a video no problem.

Although please excuse me for some time, there's an emergency at my workplace and i had run. Its 2:30 AM lol

I'll make the video and upload as soon as i am able to

No worries, It is all fine. Thanks in advance.

Apologies for the delay. First RL had me out of town for a week after we talked, and when I returned, I was super busy too. Plus it is hard to get myself to play the current missile lancer version of the game. any battle I fight I have 500 missiles coming to me from every direction in 3 D space lmao.
Anyways here's the video I promised.



As per my understanding, the time to kill with marauders is even higher than Cruiser forward guns! and Devastator is on par with LSC FWG!!

Apart from missiles:-

-Impact cannons are like 4 sec less than LSC FWG. That's insane.

-Storm fires only forward but still takes 15 seconds more than impacts to kill. Then why bother, just put impacts instead. you can deshield with Pulse cannons anyways, so no need of storms for that advantage. Plus impacts does more damage and fires 360.

-Mauler fires 360 like impacts but has lesser dps but more projectile speed.

-There is no additional advantage of putting Cerberus over orhtorus, as 1 Cerb + 1 Orth has more or less similar time to kill as compared to 2 Orths. Moreover, Since the shots disperse a lot, you'd be better off aiming with double impacts anyways, which also has higher dps.

-Shards have similar time to kill as compared to blasters. I'm not sure what i am supposed to do with shards. Do I go close, deal lots of damage in a burst and run away? I can do that lot better with impacts, which have better damage and can go 360.

-Anything else the rest of the guns are doing can be done by impacts. Bretonia Disintegrators are British coloured Impacts so they more or less the same thing.

-Light mortar is good to snipe/artillery. but, won't you put Missiles for sniping/artillery instead?

Over all as per the video above and what I've been experiencing since the patch dropped, Any Cruiser loadout just has to be Missiles + Impacts and you're good. That sucks.
I think all guns should be useful in situations they are designed to be useful. And missiles are way too powerful.

[Haste]

You are missing a lot of key balance factors.

You're glossing over velocity when analyzing virtually anything compared to Impacts. Every single cruiser heavy that isn't an impact is faster than them. Shards, for example, are 33% faster and deal almost 40% more damage per second. Sure, they're less efficient but are bound to hit things you are very likely to miss with impacts at anything but absolute point blank range.

You're missing the fact that weapons like Storm Cannons do energy damage. This means they add extra shield damage which you should not simply ignore. It's strong utility to have in a pinch. In addition, energy damage is dealt to enemy powercores on hit. Unless they're completely out of core, that means you're subtracting 7902 powercore from your opponent every time a Storm hits. For the sake of more convenient math, subtract that from the Storm's own energy use (you're creating an 'energy differential' after all) and you'll notice that Storm Cannons are pretty close to Impacts in efficiency while being 50 m/s faster and serving as pseudo-pulses in certain situations.

Missiles probably need an efficiency nerf as they do indeed currently beat Light Mortars rather handily. It is however worth noting that you can shoot down and/or dodge missiles (depending on what you're flying). Marauders/Devastators are utterly non-threatening to Gunboats, while Light Mortars are best in slot for Cruiser v Gunboat combat.

Orthrus/Cerberus might just suck, I honestly don't know as those things got overlooked a bunch of times because they're a weird class making them not show up in FLStat and making it easy to forget about them.

But yeah. You can't really analyze guns as if you are shooting a stationary Rheinland Battleship every time. You do in fact shoot targets that can avoid your shots. Velocity is the most important stat for guns of basically every class.

I had a look at Orthrus/Cerberus and the only thing I noticed being off about them is Cerberus clearly being missed when I doubled cruiser heavy DPS at some point. Other than that, they are once again faster than Impacts (Cerbs are technically also 800 meters longer range as they were missed, again, when we made range changes, lol) and that is a factor you seem to consistently ignore despite it being the most important variable to weigh. PvP isn't about shooting stationary objects.

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[Dark Chocolate]

You are missing a lot of key balance factors.

You're glossing over velocity when analyzing virtually anything compared to Impacts. Every single cruiser heavy that isn't an impact is faster than them. Shards, for example, are 33% faster and deal almost 40% more damage per second. Sure, they're less efficient but are bound to hit things you are very likely to miss with impacts at anything but absolute point blank range.

But yeah. You can't really analyze guns as if you are shooting a stationary Rheinland Battleship every time. You do in fact shoot targets that can avoid your shots. Velocity is the most important stat for guns of basically every class.

PvP isn't about shooting stationary objects.

Over all as per the video above and what I've been experiencing since the patch dropped,

I'm not just talking from the video, I am also sharing my opinion based on the battles I experienced post patch. I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. And there's really no way to show that so you gotta take my word for it. Besides it's just my opinion anyways. I understand the velocity of the gun is also an important factor and everything. But in my experience, Impacts just does way better job in every situation despite it being slow as heck!

You're missing the fact that weapons like Storm Cannons do energy damage. This means they add extra shield damage which you should not simply ignore. It's strong utility to have in a pinch. In addition, energy damage is dealt to enemy powercores on hit. Unless they're completely out of core, that means you're subtracting 7902 powercore from your opponent every time a Storm hits. For the sake of more convenient math, subtract that from the Storm's own energy use (you're creating an 'energy differential' after all) and you'll notice that Storm Cannons are pretty close to Impacts in efficiency while being 50 m/s faster and serving as pseudo-pulses in certain situations.

I know they eat shield when they hit. But in my experience, Pulse cannons + Impacts does the same job much better. But are you saying that they eat power core when they hit? I will test that and see if it is worth it. Thanks for the tip.

It is however worth noting that you can shoot down and/or dodge missiles (depending on what you're flying).

Yes you can, but people can SPAM missiles. And Every battle I have missiles raining down on me from every direction. If you really think there is adequate counter-play to missiles, then perhaps you are being ignorant about it.
I believe the energy consumption that it takes to fire missiles and refire rate should be increased, perhaps increase damage per shot to compensate that. And more CM ammo/better CMs. Then you can justify it being so powerful and fast and chasing people to oblivion. Please consider to check the videos on my channel post patch, and witness how the battles are going lel.

Marauders/Devastators are utterly non-threatening to Gunboats, while Light Mortars are best in slot for Cruiser v Gunboat combat.

Well somehow gunboats have suffered when i missile spammed them, but yeah i agree Light mortars are better, but would you sacrifice missile launcher slots for light mortars just to fight gunboats? when you can fire primaries at gunboats if they are away, and knock them down with impacts when you get close.

Orthrus/Cerberus might just suck, I honestly don't know as those things got overlooked a bunch of times because they're a weird class making them not show up in FLStat and making it easy to forget about them.


I had a look at Orthrus/Cerberus and the only thing I noticed being off about them is Cerberus clearly being missed when I doubled cruiser heavy DPS at some point. Other than that, they are once again faster than Impacts (Cerbs are technically also 800 meters longer range as they were missed, again, when we made range changes, lol) and that is a factor you seem to consistently ignore despite it being the most important variable to weigh

Even though they are faster and have more range and everything, they still miss a LOT coz of the dispersion. Impacts are way better in any situation/PvP you might wanna use them in.
How about, you make them unsuck? Buff them anyway? May be decrease dispersion? may be increase damage. I mean,.. when i fly RM Cruiser, I should feel like, Those Rheinland special guns are worth putting on my Donau. Again, everyone is just slapping missiles + Impacts on their donau lmao. Make the green guns awesome please.

[Dark Chocolate]

Behold, Great video from Sarwar.

[Levenna]

Behold

To be perfectly honest, the constant I see between the two missile examples are that you're isolated or overextended and heavily outnumbered, with your friendly support too far away to be of any help clearing your tail.




I really hate using this argument but I don't see how you could convince me that missiles are the reason for your death in either of those two situations and that you wouldn't still have just died outright to mortars or even just cruiser tachyons. You even shot down a very good deal of the incoming ordnance in the first one. There was very obviously a lot that went wrong before missiles were even a factor. I agree that missiles are very efficient damage wise but.. if dying to spam is your issue, that honestly speaks to me that you need to look at your fleet fight positioning moreso than missiles being the core issue. They have to be in range before you can spam them.

Well somehow gunboats have suffered when i missile spammed them, but yeah i agree Light mortars are better, but would you sacrifice missile launcher slots for light mortars just to fight gunboats? when you can fire primaries at gunboats if they are away, and knock them down with impacts when you get close.

Speaking from a lot of gunboat fleet fight experience since patch, if a gunboat gets hit by a missile it is very much their own fault. I've run a battlecruiser out of missiles on a cruiser by dodging when they were chainfiring 4 devastators at me, gunboats are obviously a great deal smaller and more agile than that. Primaries are similarly a non-issue. The threat to gunboats from battlecruisers come in the form of EMP flaks and battlecruiser heavies, the former of which has AoE to make it difficult to dodge, the latter of which has sheer velocity and enough single shot damage to be a threat. Cruisers have the much easier job of just sitting on them by being faster.

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[03.07.2024] LNS-Beast***: we can do this every day but you have to buy bigger stronger ships...and i'll help you