(11-10-2023, 08:33 PM)St.Denis Wrote: It would be nice to see some empathy/sympathy displayed to those that feel, somewhat, aggrieved with the big changes that came with the new Update and subsequent changes in the Rules.
Just because you personally are not affected by certain changes, doesn't mean that those that are, are wrong to feel aggrieved.
As for the Barge, not everyone used it to 'powertrade'. There are those that actually do enjoy flying it, but it has become a huge problem with JGs/JHs mainly surrounded by asteroid/scrap/ice fields and in some systems the rock density has been greatly increased, making it a nightmare to fly.
I love the barge. I love the challenge of flying it. It has been a major part of my RP for DSE. The irony of saying it is built for "Deep Space" and Deep Space Engineers can't even get to deep space to use it. I have a base in Manchester that I cannot supply from Liberty due to Asteroids etc.
I am not opposed to the inability of the Trade Lanes... it's the total inability to fly it effectively from place to place. At least clear the JH's and JG's of asteroids etc, and boost its cruise speed to match a battleship's.
Back to the Devs. Front up and tell us what the plans are.
(11-10-2023, 08:33 PM)St.Denis Wrote: It would be nice to see some empathy/sympathy displayed to those that feel, somewhat, aggrieved with the big changes that came with the new Update and subsequent changes in the Rules.
We have had 'certain' commodities disappear.
House Government changes/requirements.
Changes to Cap Ships and how they operate.
And many more that people aren't happy with.
In the past we have had the big change to SNACs
etc
etc
etc
Top of the list should be the counterproductive "pobs must be 8k away from npc bases and x/y distance from lanes/planets" that not only screws over existing pobs (god knows that wouldnt be the first time) but which has 0 "benefits" apart from making it easier for sadistic players to kick in creative players sand castles, and additionally makes the aesthetics, balance, realism, and immersion of the mod worse.
While it's true that the barge was said to be a bragging-rights-money-sink-with-little-intended-ingame-benefits thing somewhere before it was made available, the thread that sold them didn't seem to make that clear to buyers, which is probably partly the fault of the person who made that thread.
(11-10-2023, 08:45 PM)Lusitano Wrote: probably in a worst way that barge owners are reacting for a hyper expensive ship, that a lot of people were promised that would stay that way forever, turned into a complete useless flying piece of crap.
All in all, the billions of credits wasted for players are bad, but the worst part of the latest update is that devs as a team obviously still have no idea how to fix anything and just keep making things worse with their mindless fumbling around. That in addition to the lack of empathy or respect for players, which is also a huge problem.
But hey, staff is invincible with their logic, because they follow the super smart tradition that says anyone who utters criticism at their obvious dysfunction is either a conspiracy theorist or in a conspiracy against them, and everything is just pure opinion opinion opinion anyway so theirs is the only opinion that matters because dey got da powa.
(11-10-2023, 10:11 PM)Lukas Wrote: For myself [color=#FFFF00 the barge now is pure useless... [/color] i got x4 of them but after the patch it got complete killed.
You cant mine a barge alone because it despawns now, the bann from tradelanes are a HUGE nerf.
If i see how much time i invested to buy these ships and how it end up now its another reason to think about all this here.
...another downgrade of cargospace isnt in my eyes a way to go because then the ship skin compared to a 5ker would be way to big.
I agree Lukas. It's a con job.
Those who bought them kept them because of the interesting and enjoyable challenges. The developments regarding the Barge has been shamefully handled and clearly the ramifications were not thought through.
I also reflect back on how some barge owners "in the know" tried to hock them off before the 5.0 patch. That was trading of course... insider trading.
The ship used to make over 3x what a 5ker could make by trading, it HAD to be nerfed. It still generates absurds amount of credits, except this time its not 300% more and you don't have the convenience of using trade lanes that are one third the size of your ship. I've seen plenty of people use it this patch, the only reason people complain is because their ship doesn't generate absurd sums of credits/hour anymore.
The Barge was always meant as a sidegrade, not an upgrade, even if it costs 150 Million Credits. The Samura Liner costs 44 Million Credits, should it be the strongest ship in the game because of it? I think the answer is obvious if you think for more than two seconds. The Renzu Fighters cost over a Million as well, that doesn't mean they should just be better because of their price tag. In a game like Discovery, where everything is balanced to be a viable option, a ship that is just straight up better just because it costs more doesn't have a place.
Last words are for fools who have not yet said enough.
(11-10-2023, 08:40 PM)Haste Wrote: The only real way to realistically let the ship keep its laning ability - which is easy enough to re-enable - would be to drastically cut into the ship's cargo capacity. I'd expect to have to bring it down to 10,000 or so. It'd end up not too different from how it is right now in terms of viability. Fundamentally I believe removing laning makes more sense if we believe in the ship's infocard, which hints at the ship operating in very remote regions. It still excels there, for the record. A simple division of cargo space by cruise speed shows you that objectively the barge can move more cargo per hour off the lanes than a 5k could. Sure, the long charge time reduces the margin a bit, but the Barge objectively is not a bad ship.
I would agree with the concept of reducing the Barge's cargo down to 10k and re-setting the stats to make it not OP so long as it was also reduced in scale by 2/3 as well. Since the current Barge is called "Type 2", call the new iteration the Type 1 or 3. Make it useable and laneable and set other stats to make it "correct".
Also leave the Barge as a specialty ship and no longer sell them. Let people trade the existing ships only.
(11-10-2023, 10:45 PM)Prysin Wrote: To be honest, the least that could be done is offer a full refund to NPC vendor. It's a low hanging fruit. Probably the lowest possible hanging fruit.
Those who like the barge, will keep it. Those who regret their purchase, can get refunded.
I would vote for this as an owner of two barges. My unlawful one is fine, as it does not use lanes obviously. Lawful one however I would absolutely refund. Completely useless. Also agree with all of what Karlotta said about the pob location changes. If I was conspiratorially minded, I would say they did this on purpose. They know they can't physically delete money from players accounts that would cause a riot, so they make a very expensive money sink (Barge) and then nerf it the very next patch. We all fell for it hook, line and sinker, didn't we.
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(11-10-2023, 10:45 PM)Prysin Wrote: To be honest, the least that could be done is offer a full refund to NPC vendor. It's a low hanging fruit. Probably the lowest possible hanging fruit.
Those who like the barge, will keep it. Those who regret their purchase, can get refunded.
Partial refunds make more sense considering the eye-watering credits many Barge owners will have made prior to the changes. And sure, I've never been opposed to those personally. I've only seen people attempting to get reimbursed the full amount, which is a bit of a joke considering just how good the ship was at making money previously.
(11-10-2023, 10:45 PM)Prysin Wrote: To be honest, the least that could be done is offer a full refund to NPC vendor. It's a low hanging fruit. Probably the lowest possible hanging fruit.
Those who like the barge, will keep it. Those who regret their purchase, can get refunded.
Partial refunds make more sense considering the eye-watering credits many Barge owners will have made prior to the changes. And sure, I've never been opposed to those personally. I've only seen people attempting to get reimbursed the full amount, which is a bit of a joke considering just how good the ship was at making money previously.
what about those who didnt live in a area enabling eye-watering profits? Since your argument is "because this investment paid of immensely"....
Are we going to remove any sell price for 5k'ers as a category? no class has generated even remotely close to as much profit as the 5k'ers.... Barges don't come remotely close.
And since this change was not given any head warning, and it is not a "minor" change to the barge. Let us not try to fool ourselves here. This is a substantial change to the barge, as such, owners who didn't have the chance to make "eye-watering" profits, couldnt have had time to do so.
If you were to put yourself in others shoes, and had your trade ship, made worse at its primary function overnight, with no forewarning, no community input at all, you'd be pissed and rightfully so.
I have not posted any of my opinions about the mod changes for some time, so some people don't get offended by my criticism but... let me say my 2 cents here anyway. Sadly, for me, the barge is gone... a total loss, and now got no use at all - I see its info card saying that it should be acting as a far base, etc... but I don't see it being used as a base, since it's fragile, easily killed, can't have factories, and can't defend itself properly at all. So what I see is the use that the community gave it, which is a supplier for the excessive materials in POB recepies (previous mod).
Now it can't use trade lanes and is slow so it is useless sadly. I am sorry to say, another dead ship of no use and a great loss, but I adapted and sold them lol - No need for them now since the recepies of POBs are not by the 100,000 units lol and also because they are not using trade lanes and slow.... completely useless now sorry.
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