Government Roleplay And Transport Rework Feedback

[Barrier]

Let's take the rheingov capital ship requests since I joined gov:

Freelancer Bustard: denied due to no RP with any Rheinland faction. I understand that this was probably a newer player, so they thought doing PvE and taking RM missions was enough. And honestly, it might have been if they made any report of such activities, but they did not.
They also did not contact RM in any way, and did not explain why a Freelancer should be allowed to fly a Bustard without being part of RM.

Hogosha Amaterasu: approved, due to the excellent INRP brochure of the Casino, and a good tie-in with Baden Baden tourism. I feel like there was also prior contact from the player, but I can't be sure. It would likely not be necessary, as the current app itself is strong enough.

OS&C Amaterasu approved, due to the prior comms about OS&C humanitarian efforts from the civil war. Not even mentioning the event, as that is going above an beyond, and is unnecessary. The application itself also makes sense in that OS&C would want to do cruises through all the Houses for its VIPs, and are already welcome in Rheinland due to Baden Baden oversight.

I genuinely believe most people who played at least a few months of disco can easily match the two successful applications. And even for newer players, all they need to do is reach out - to me, @Prysin, @EisenSeele , or @Hopewell. But instead, people often just fire an app through and never ask about how best to ensure it's approved.
This is basically SRP-lite. If you are applying for an SRP, you're expected to produce a mountain of RP with other players. All I ask at rheingov is that you produce a foothill of RP with at least one other player in Rheinland. And if that's too much to ask, I suppose you can avoid it if that's your preference.

@Petitioner I get what you're saying, but I'd think anyone driving an APC to work would raise some massive news-worthy eyebrows. In any case, my overall point still stands: if the Bulwark shouldn't be restricted, then no Cruiser should be either.

[Lord Caedus]

@Petitioner I get what you're saying, but I'd think anyone driving an APC to work would raise some massive news-worthy eyebrows. In any case, my overall point still stands: if the Bulwark shouldn't be restricted, then no Cruiser should be either.

I'd probably want to drive an APC to work if it was likely that I would gets stopped and held at gunpoint on my way to work on a regular basis. Which is a thing that actually happens.



Yes this isn't exactly an APC but they're armored against the weapons they see, and carrying weapons that are similar. Doing the same in Disco wouldn't be out of place.

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[Petitioner]

@Petitioner I get what you're saying, but I'd think anyone driving an APC to work would raise some massive news-worthy eyebrows. In any case, my overall point still stands: if the Bulwark shouldn't be restricted, then no Cruiser should be either.

As @Lord Caedus said, it wouldn't really raise any eyebrows if the driver was at risk of getting carjacked, having their work supplies or valuable cargo stolen, getting murdered on live TV for propagandistic purposes, and having their life insurance policies voided due to some quirk of their corporate contract (all of which applies to any corporate employee who operates in space infested by groups like, to use your own example, the Unioners). In fact it's pretty normal under those circumstances (see the "Commercial Demand" section of this article). Police state or no, Rheinland, like every other house, has a major problem with not only piracy but domestic and international terrorism, and as such the use of almost-military-grade vehicles like frigates, the Longhorn, and the Bulwark is indisputably completely appropriate for civilian actors when civilian actors IRL in similar conditions use actually-military-grade vehicles for the same purpose.

Once again, if you disagree, tell [RM] to log and start patrolling the lanes. Otherwise, you (here meaning Rheingov) are effectively just indiscriminately griefing traders and should be treated like a griefer (ie, told to not do that by the staff team).

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[LuckyOne]

Really don't care that the Govs require jumping through a few extra hoops for special ships.

However if all transports will get this treatment then the hoop jumping should be abolished.

Having said that, I don't believe that making transports Cruisers and BCs lite is the way.

Pirates are already an endangered species, and these changes will probably make them completely extinct.

What should be done instead is to enable some kind of a cargo insurance system, that would encourage pirates to impress traders with some decent RP, else they get nothing in return, and the trader only loses invested time not credits.

After all, RPing a trader should be for people who like to solve their problems using diplomacy, not shooting their way out.

Also buffing hulls so they can take some hits so the pirates need to choose their pirating spots logically, and there is more time to call for support or escort before popping like a pinata.

Maybe some energy draining and Riposte-mine like defensive weapons that could be used to prolong the time a competent transport captain has to get to safety.

[Barrier]

@Petitioner I get what you're saying, but I'd think anyone driving an APC to work would raise some massive news-worthy eyebrows. In any case, my overall point still stands: if the Bulwark shouldn't be restricted, then no Cruiser should be either.

As @Lord Caedus said, it wouldn't really raise any eyebrows if the driver was at risk of getting carjacked, having their work supplies or valuable cargo stolen, getting murdered on live TV for propagandistic purposes, and having their life insurance policies voided due to some quirk of their corporate contract (all of which applies to any corporate employee who operates in space infested by groups like, to use your own example, the Unioners). In fact it's pretty normal under those circumstances (see the "Commercial Demand" section of this article). Police state or no, Rheinland, like every other house, has a major problem with not only piracy but domestic and international terrorism, and as such the use of almost-military-grade vehicles like frigates, the Longhorn, and the Bulwark is indisputably completely appropriate for civilian actors when civilian actors IRL in similar conditions use actually-military-grade vehicles for the same purpose.

Once again, if you disagree, tell [RM] to log and start patrolling the lanes. Otherwise, you (here meaning Rheingov) are effectively just indiscriminately griefing traders and should be treated like a griefer (ie, told to not do that by the staff team).

Let's be reasonable here - if there were enough players/motivation for people, they would be doing this already. Incentivizing police rp is a separate issue that has already been discussed sort inconclusively, since the answer was "more players needed".

Alternatively, traders can hire escorts, form convoys, pm lawfuls ahead of time that they'll be passing through, and @ emergency chats when they're about to get pirated and try to stall for time inrp. But all of the above require interaction, while just flying a bigger ship can be done solo. But that is already what most traders do, and they seem none the worse for it.

[Seapanda]

@Petitioner I get what you're saying, but I'd think anyone driving an APC to work would raise some massive news-worthy eyebrows. In any case, my overall point still stands: if the Bulwark shouldn't be restricted, then no Cruiser should be either.

As @Lord Caedus said, it wouldn't really raise any eyebrows if the driver was at risk of getting carjacked, having their work supplies or valuable cargo stolen, getting murdered on live TV for propagandistic purposes, and having their life insurance policies voided due to some quirk of their corporate contract (all of which applies to any corporate employee who operates in space infested by groups like, to use your own example, the Unioners). In fact it's pretty normal under those circumstances (see the "Commercial Demand" section of this article). Police state or no, Rheinland, like every other house, has a major problem with not only piracy but domestic and international terrorism, and as such the use of almost-military-grade vehicles like frigates, the Longhorn, and the Bulwark is indisputably completely appropriate for civilian actors when civilian actors IRL in similar conditions use actually-military-grade vehicles for the same purpose.

Once again, if you disagree, tell [RM] to log and start patrolling the lanes. Otherwise, you (here meaning Rheingov) are effectively just indiscriminately griefing traders and should be treated like a griefer (ie, told to not do that by the staff team).

Let's be reasonable here - if there were enough players/motivation for people, they would be doing this already. Incentivizing police rp is a separate issue that has already been discussed sort inconclusively, since the answer was "more players needed".

Alternatively, traders can hire escorts, form convoys, pm lawfuls ahead of time that they'll be passing through, and @ emergency chats when they're about to get pirated and try to stall for time inrp. But all of the above require interaction, while just flying a bigger ship can be done solo. But that is already what most traders do, and they seem none the worse for it.

I'm afraid that the exact same reason for the first solution not being viable also applies to the second solution. If there were enough players X, Y, Z.

[Amba]

Did you know that the Longhorn is part of the Liberty Civilian techcell and is thus available to all liberty unlawful factions plus the GC and Unioneers? Powertraders might be messing around with licenses but you could be cargo pirating their 5ks RIGHT NOW in the meantime!

[The Republic Of Liberty]

Just distributed some Liberty.

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[The_Godslayer]

As a side note, self-propelled guns (which aren't tanks per-se, but fit into a layman's conception of what a "tank" is) and other things of that nature are mostly all perfectly street legal.

Fun fact: I have a close friend who has mounted a 30mm coil gun to his pickup truck just to see if he could. The obstacle for him to drive it on the road had nothing to do with the actual gun, and had to do with the drive train for turning the gun, which, by law, required a brace because of instability. To ensure that it wouldn't swing out into the road when taking a turn off the highway. The fact that it could be aimed and fired from the cabin, and in a wartime environment would be classified as a "Self-propelled Mobile Artillery", was not a problem. The possibility of the gun swinging out into the road when he took a flying-Y was.

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I'll do something about my superiority complex when I cease to be superior.

"Whatever happened to catchin' a good old-fashioned passionate ass-whoopin and gettin' your shoes, coat, and your hat tooken?"

[StellarViss]

To be honest, why is it so important for lawfuls to be able to destroy a smuggler’s ship? Multiple smuggling offenses could just as easily be met with an FR3 with the appropriate evidence. Also, most player groups with tagged ships don’t risk smuggling through house space, as it’s simply too dangerous to be spotted. As for the Longhorn, it’s almost guaranteed a combat dock in most house systems if being chased by a lone pursuer. The Bulwark may be different since it's larger and has more components.

Escorts are an excellent option for all traders, especially in convoys, where each transport in the convoy can contribute to the escort’s pay. Escorts can also scout by flying ahead of the convoy. Personally, I think that stalling in RP is the worst option a transport player can take.

For example, once while I was flying a Lane Hacker gunboat, I stopped a transport. The trader began complaining about how it was unfair for my Lane Hacker to rob him. During our conversation, TLAGSNET notified me that two Liberty capital ships had taken a trade lane just one system away. This forced me to cut the conversation short and demand the trader’s compliance. However, he continued to stall, so I opened fire and took his cargo. Lane Hackers do have an advantage with TLAGSNET, but with Discovery’s smaller player base and the use of Discord, traders’ pings or a mass login of lawfuls often signal an immediate demand or destruction of the trader.