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Infiltrator uses both nomad and human parts to control and indoctrinate humans. That is why humans must stay physically near the Infiltrator to become Thralls. Spacebound Nomads can't replicate this since they aren't this compound organism. Incubus can't do it on its own without a host, either.
I'm inclined to agree that infiltrators, to be effective, need to retain at least most of their host's mind and personality. I rather like the notion that they're still in there, albeit corrupted and changed as Niemann or Tekagi seemed to be. They have changes to their activities because of shifting priorities and goals ofc, but they still had little quirks and such that one could reasonably infer as belonging to the host's former self. Their psyches, in that sense, could live on as "edited programs" in a way. Masks to be worn.
(05-16-2024, 08:01 PM)Erremnart Wrote:
Infiltrator uses both nomad and human parts to control and indoctrinate humans. That is why humans must stay physically near the Infiltrator to become Thralls. Spacebound Nomads can't replicate this since they aren't this compound organism. Incubus can't do it on its own without a host, either.
This does incidentally result in a vast undercutting of a lot of Nomad player RP. If Nomads cannot psychically affect humans in their spacebound forms, it renders a lot of avenues of expression and interaction noncanon.
Posts: 875
Threads: 73
Joined: May 2020
Staff roles: Story Developer
Spacebound Nomads can control and indoctrinate humans through "verbal" manipulation and lies. Still, they cannot force it as Infiltrators can via long-term exposure (unless character is a Cardamine addict or an Outcast). In this regard, they are in a very similar situation to other humans—their victims might block off their "words" or "visions" by their own will.
That is why Nomads really, really need Infiltrators to control humanity.
EDIT: This isn't a big change, as space-bound Nomads couldn't control humans via telepathy without infection. It always required other player's consent. If they say 'no' now, their characters are just sane enough not to allow Nomads to go further.
(05-16-2024, 08:17 PM)Erremnart Wrote: Spacebound Nomads can control and indoctrinate humans through "verbal" manipulation and lies. Still, they cannot force it as Infiltrators can via long-term exposure (unless character is a Cardamine addict or an Outcast). In this regard, they are in a very similar situation to other humans—their victims might block off their "words" or "visions" by their own will.
Nomads don't speak English. They project raw ideas to their target. Visions and/or words are much more like speaking. You absolutely can choose to simply not listen, the same way you'd ignore some lawful telling you to cut your engines. It should end the same way too.
For the most part, there are two flavors of infiltrator. There is the passive version, who is the ones you know and love, who crawl into your human body, and subtly influence themselves into full control of the victim. They retain human mannerisms, and a large part if not all of the human identity. Then there are the active ones (for pvp or event participation or other throwaway type characters), because Nomads know that humans have infected scanners and, probably more effectively, paranoia, so actually infiltrating is much harder and generally worthless on a large scale. The active ones are just nomads wearing human skinsuits, very very little of the human remains beyond the body, because they only need to act human enough to get within killing-you range.
I'll do something about my superiority complex when I cease to be superior.
"Whatever happened to catchin' a good old-fashioned passionate ass-whoopin and gettin' your shoes, coat, and your hat tooken?"
(05-15-2024, 10:04 PM)jammi Wrote: Incredible post
I'm usually not a fan of creating lore to explain a story, but with Discovery we kind of have to. I like how some things that weren't completely explained in single player has an explanation created by using existing lore and common sense. A lot of us can learn from this - thank you for the post. I'm very curious if there has been any discussion about a Dom K'vosh returning story arc?
(05-16-2024, 08:00 PM)Ki'Shar Wrote: If you look at it from my PoV, I've had "La'Row" as the Infiltrator since 2014. And I have always played her as GRN/MRG/Enclave/Royalist character to keep her around Gallia and to cause bad stuff around that would be beneficial for both Nomads and Gallia. She was present during Leeds offensive, New London offensive, Glassing of Leeds (where I tinker with idea one of her fleet ships was glassing Leeds itself), then Kusari-Gallia war.
What would be the point of making a high ranked infiltrator if that would be just another body without the soul. The Incubus connects to the CNS so it can tinker with brain and adjust to situation correctly.
After reading your post, a light bulb lit up in my head. I always thought that glassing Leeds, as an example, was a very silly move. Even back then I viewed Gallia as empire builders, not world destroyers - this move did not make sense. Unless some upper brass were not entirely human... interesting spin!
It ain't about what you are capable of, it's about what you're willing to do.
A Nomad Player since "The Shrine" and the Trial I.D were a thing coming in for some commentary. Since I've been playing Nomads since 2016 I'd like to give a little bit of a comment here for anyone who resonates.
I have said it before in some brief discussions with fellow roleplayers in the xeno factions when it comes to the role of the Nomads, how they're being played today,
how they should be roleplayed (including speech) and how they were played in the past in Discovery by our K'hara and Keepers of those times. I have also made comments about
the Da'am K'vosh and the precursor to the creation of the Nomads and this debate on humanity being a form of inheritor or "stealing a birthright" and all of these opinions that
have been added to the story ---
I want to point out something that needs to be said in general about these xeno creatures in how they've evolved in the minds of the players who remained to carry on such
a story of the Nomads -- which by their original design by Chris Roberts' team (pardon me for not knowing the story developers thoroughly enough to mention who had the idea
of the Nomads to begin with) did not have many of the traits that are being described as of now. This is something like archeologists through who tests of bones and carbon dating
and design, create bone structures to tell us "this is what the dinosaurs looked like" and because theyre the ones we trust to tell us what is true or not about these beings that
existed (the dinosaurs from our irl, Planet Earth) we have fantasy content created about them from stories and art to movies and video games like Jurassic Park series and Ark: Survival Evolved to what came to mind first...
The Nomads are exactly like this. Chris Roberts introduced this idea of an alien species with strange formations and ways of being, revealed the idea of an alien parasite influencing
humanity to off itself through turning it against itself, and that the way to beat them was to open a hypergate by shooting a laser beam at a weird structure in the center of a Dyson
Sphere to pull in some aliens and its over its done! Woo Hoo!
If I remember correctly, Chris Roberts and his team were on a form of budget and time constraint and had to develop Freelancer with a campaign and multiplayer compatible mode
by a certain time and this is how the story ended up without much time or resources to flesh it all out. (please correct me if wrong.)
So you have this whole idea grown over time by the fandom itself that Nomads had telepathy at all, which wasnt revealed in the Campaign.
You have this idea of Thralls and Infiltrators which is a creative idea by our story developer and is needed, not many people are continuing the story and making sense of it making this person a very valuable member of the community... however still...
THE COMMUNITY DECIDES WHAT THE NOMADS ARE, WHY THEYRE DOING WHAT THEYRE DOING, WHY THEY LOOK THE WAY THEY DO, WHERE THEIR BASES ARE, WHAT THE EVENTS ARE AND WHY... etc etc. The Community has all the power in deciding what they are because Discovery is the mod, not the original creators intentions... So Nomads are the extension of the community's mind and those who have an interest in xenos, aliens, psychic powers and the like meaning...
Much of the Nomad's current lore is a continuation of an established alien species by a previous story developer by those with a form of experience and knowledge of psychic abilities, hostile/aggressive xenos (maybe like the xenomorphs and the like), alien parasites and the like (im thinking chestbursters and all them)... I'm not an expert enough to give references, and I believe if we recruited creators and authors of actual sci-fi books and film to take a peek at Disco's development of the Nomads and give their true honest review we could get a good inspiration to make Nomads even more accurate and interesting to what they were originally intended to be by getting more ideas out... the bottom line I want to make is:
Nomads will only be ever as advanced as the minds of the community, the creative abilities of the official story developers and the inspiration they gain thereof (from movies, games, sci-films and invited author/filmmakers opinion) and they can be anything the community wants them to become to fulfill the person of an exciting antagonistic alien threat...
Apologies in advance for what I'm not aware of, however this then brings me to the argument that many of our writers and storytellers and roleplayers ignore many things about the Nomads and their existence. Mainly being the Dyson Sphere which still remains which is a feat that has not been done by humanity in the timeline presented by the Discovery
community and remains largely untouched in a sense that it has been discovered and reported in roleplays and been a form of intelligence factions possessed within roleplay however
the fact that this Dyson Sphere does exist does give sense to an advanced feat of construction that Nomads do possess.
That if within a Dyson Sphere is a universe of its own kind where Nomad beings can reside and exist -- are we giving enough attention that the Nomads have a form of technology
far beyond the development of human beings? If they maintain this kind of power structure, what are the Nomads truly capable of?
1. Construction or the maintenance of construction of massive superstructures capable of harnessing the power of a star
2. Warforms of organic based ships using projections of energy
3. Psychic abilities, mind control and telepathy -- in whatever forms allow it
4. Creation of parasites and incubi -- (roleplayed as the creation of, not the species itself)
5. Advanced manipulation and control of human beings and the minds there of, advanced plotting and planning ahead of futuristic space humans abilities to stop
it leading to the creation of a faction "The Order" to handle such a threat... i can yada yada all day about this
6. A "Mindshare" and a form of hivemind intelligence that can create such unity between forms that are revealed and unrevealed to the roleplay environment and to the story itself,
which is a power that humans do not possess without a form of skynet-like technological brain chipping (or wherever my mind goes with what humans could go to reach that power
in a Discovery timeline).
7. An invention of a form which can destroy entire suns, which was revealed in an extra scene and this community made a ship for it in the game by my memory....
These 7 points alone in my opinion, would make the Nomads a form of "Type II" civilization by the Kardashev Scale, an interesting proposal:
And leaving Humanity in a very weak spot in comparison, in that Nomads would present themselves to the faces of the people of Discovery Freelancer since their inception by Chris Robert's team a form of Elder/Master race in comparison... A space race of potentially energy based beings of advanced consciousness who, integrate with organic vessels of their design and with a negative twist -- have the ability to create parasites and chimaera creatures much like one can create a virus or bacterium and THOSE are the Incubi which are sent to humanity and not the Nomads themselves.
I believe Chris Roberts wanted us to think bigger when he presented the idea of the Dyson Sphere however if we are going to continue to allow Nomads to possess it we must
reflect the power that they must have, by being able to develop in complete security with the idea of a Dyson Sphere for the amount of time they have... there is alot more to these aliens than is being reflected in by the storyboard as its developed (although, still a very talented take on the idea). A story needs alot of minds to come together to create it however I believe Nomads should be reflected as a form of "energetic based consciousness" that creates forms to inhabit and are quite good at doing so...
Think of the game "SCP Secret Laboratory" and multiply that by 1000x. You get the idea of what the Nomads could be doing with sourcing a star as an infinite energy source and having
an advanced, high population Dyson Sphere...
In my mind, which seems to be much different than anyone elses, Nomads were destined to be a much, much bigger idea that was not fully fleshed out here in this community but
we are right at the door because the Dyson Sphere is still there and it can still be roleplayed from here perfectly fine that Thralls and Infiltrators are just the chimaera forms
of Nomad and we struggle with their minor forms. And they maintain themselves happily within their Dyson Sphere in a sense. In the creation of this form of lower being chimaera
that is programmed to contain humanity's rapid expansion through space, they use humanity's own natural warlike tendencies to expand upon one another and hurt one another,
and inflate these shadow traits of humanity without having to get their fingers dirty. This is where I'd go with the idea. And that Nomads, may be cosmically indifferent to humanity
in many respects and instead can play with the concept of them through this form of war that is processed ENTIRELY different empathetically to them than humanity would understand.
Now would I prefer a more humanitarian xeno? Sure, it has no representation in the Disco universe. However I am sure it can be roleplayed through the Nomads with this idea in
mind. Now, the idea of course that Nomads want to exterminate humanity from the basis we can assume from what we see in the campaign of vanilla sure, those are the Thralls
and Infiltrators and the like and the concept of good and evil, to the Elders of this race that sent these chimaeras/parasite disease was to be a form of control for human expansion
and wasnt entirely, from a cosmic perspective "EVIL" as that would be a human creation and human idea to a RACE OF BEINGS COSMICALLY INDIFFERENT TO HUMAN AFFAIRS
in many ways as these. And I'm sure, with RP simillar to the Vagrants, we can create multiple factions of Nomads that can satisfy each xeno players desire to roleplay a certain
way instead of "extermination alien", a more human friendly "cosmic intelligence alien" or many other kinds... who knows. Creativity becomes endless with that being allowed with
the roleplay of it that we are all creators and all making this story together.
If the creatives of the community ask me to take a knack at some story development I'd like to give it a shot --
To those who read this, I salute you it was alot
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
I might be the Outsider here and my opinion might not be Popular but i want to give my 2 Cents towards the whole thing too. Some might only Know me as a MFE Doctor but my Caracter is actualy Infected by a Nomad Called Admete. But i decided to do things Completly different from Standard Protocol. She was infected years ago and while i would most likely not get her Infected again i never Regreted my Decision. Isabella as she is known now did this Infection out of her own Free Will and didnt Fought it. She didnt do it because she wanted Power, Fame or Riches, but out of love. Some of you might Know her Tragic Past as Sonja (And the Necessary Retcon), and the Hell she went Trough. But still she keept that light in her Heart and didnt let the Darkness in. This Fact was something that Impressed the Vagrant Mindshare back then and she was allowed to Remain herself.
Her Incubus Admete is more like a Sister to her than like a Evil Controleing Entity. I always Saw the Two of them like Ying and Yang two sides of the same Medal. Were one of them had Shortcomeings the other would step in and take over. For example Isa cant Stand Violence due to her troubled Past. So whenever it comes to a Fight she goes "Sleeping" within her mind and Admete takes Controle. Isa haves no Memories at the things that happen then and this is another way how Admete Protects her "Sister". But Isa does also bring a Part to the Symbiosis, she gives Admete and the Mindshare Deeper insight into Humanity and Helps them understand them.
Back when i invented Admete and Isa's Relationship with some friends in the Vargants (I miss you Pepole) i was told that the Vagrants have understood that they would be utterly Crushed if humanity ever got ther Shit together and stoped fighting amongst themselfs and Sees the Nomads as the Threat they are. So they Decided to take a Way Oposite to the K`hara and find a way to Coexist and to Rather take a Slow and Covert Aproach to the Target instead of the Genocidal and Agressive one that the K`hara Have Chosen. Not sure if that is Still the Vagrant Lore to this day but i have to say that i enjoyed the way i played my litle Infected Doctor. I might be a Outsider with this Aproach but for me its no fun to do it Like anyone else instead of Forgeing my own Path.
(12-18-2024, 03:46 PM)Broken Wings Wrote: So they Decided to take a Way Oposite to the K`hara and find a way to Coexist and to Rather take a Slow and Covert Aproach to the Target instead of the Genocidal and Agressive one that the K`hara Have Chosen. Not sure if that is Still the Vagrant Lore to this day [...]
At no point ever did the Vagrants truly seek for co-existence. They were the ones who got forced out of Sirius, have been crippled and forced to change, and their return was from the beginning on to take revenge on mankind. The only reason the Vagrants are different from K'Hara is that they had to evolve differently during their time outside of Sirius. They came back and realized they are no longer compatible with K'Hara, unable to rejoin their mindshare, being forced to stay with their own, small mindshare barely held together by the three intial big Vagrants, namely Lamassu the Sleeper (Ramke's character), Polyhymnia the Planner (Foxglove's character) and Dione the Builder (my character).
Seeking to co-exist with mankind in any capacity is the absolute opposite of what the Vagrants want. They hate mankind more than K'Hara do because they suffered more than K'Hara had to. Their hatred for mankind could not be rooted deeper and vehemently. Any diplomacy the Vagrants went for was blatantly obviously to the advantage of the Vagrants - when the Commune offered themselves as worshippers, the Vagrants gladly took their sacrifices, and the "alliance" with Auxo was never more than a deal with the devil for both factions, mainly to fight the factions operating near Omicron Lost, where the Vagrants initially used Moros as base of operations. Humans are, at best, only tools for them, and otherwise an eternal enemy.
The Wild, or specifically Das Wilde actually always had a more lenient approach on collaborators and possible symbiosis instead of parasitic relationships between host and incubus.
Just as a clarification, since Vagrants are factually and historically not "Casper the friendly Nomad". Most of the initial returnees literally shared the trait of sadism in their character profiles.
@Sombs i never said i have all the Wisdome in the world when it comes to Vagrant Lore. All i did was to explain how my Caracter came to life and how it play her. Hell i would Rather say that i mostly play by my own Rules than those of Established Lore. But I dont mind to get some Input and Explenation about the lore. So thanks for that.
![[Image: aQKeM98.png]](https://i.imgur.com/aQKeM98.png)
