Eliminating Capship abuse

[MB52]

Ok, so a discussion in another thread got me thinking about this...

Basically as we all know we do have a capwhore problem, that is people that buy capships ONLY to kill people in combat and not rp but who's fault is it? it is easy to blame the people that do it, but what if they are just new players who don't know better? who were never exposed to great RP when they were new?

Most factions that I've seen try to reduce the Capship spam, by using only fighters BUT still have capships in reserve. Now the only time you see these capships ever online is when there is a threat, like enemy capships in the area.

Think about it.. a new player comes on, is amazed at the capships BUT the only time he ever sees them is when they are PVPing. After the PVP is over the capships simply disapear, offering not much RP. This may give an impression that that is all capships are good for.


Now the Radical idea is for Factions to start using their capships MORE often. Crazy right? Keep on reading and you'll see where I'm going. Most here can agree that the Factions are looked up upon by many, their RP in their fighters are often superb but their capships lack the same quality of RP. Often the capships stay offline collecting dust until they are needed to kill something, then after it is dead, they go back offline. What if the official Factions had a capship online and present almost all the time. I"m not saying to PVP whore it, but RP it. RP the standard operations, the boring stuff about captaining a capship(but it doesn't have to be boring either of course). When PVP arrives, you don't have to go fight but can command the fighters from wherever you are stationed but the key thing is to not simply disappear after the PVP ends. Capships, especially dreadnoughts shouldn't just disappear (unless they have a cloak but thats a whole different story) and there is much more to their operation then just flying in and killing things. All of this adds to the impression that capships are much more then just PVP tools.

So think about it, if a Faction kept say, their flagship online often, and RPing allot, perhaps we could stem the tide of capwhores with no RP. If new players are exposed to well RPed capships and don't only see them as fighting machines maybe, just maybe a few of these "future" capwhores can be changed, perhaps even make them want a capship even more, but for a whole different reason. Not to own everything in PVP but to RP.

Before we can get rid of capwhores the first step is to get rid of the image that a capship is ONLY there to kill things and I think the official factions and even indies in capships are perfect for the job, as long as it is done responsibly.


Think about it, its a crazy idea but what if it is true? I wonder how many of the current capwhores could have been changed by being exposed to great rp out of capships in the past?

Break off into groups and discuss, though please no flaming of anyone, official factions or indies... we are all responsible for fixing this problem.

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I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust

[Spear]

I would love to see this more often from the "official" factions although I suspect it will just encourage their factions enemies to role out their CAP's and attack.

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=LSF=

[kingvaillant]

/signed.

As said in the other topic by others, you have a point. The image we show prevails, we might not have realized it but as you said, we are only using our caps to pwn the crap out of enemy caps. . .

So, if you are bored, got nothing to do. instead of sitting at Newark with a fighter doing nothing but RP. Sit there with a capital ship!

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions

[Orin]

/signed

At least the LPI doesn't/can't capwhore like the LN...:P

[Eppy]

Umm...I fly one of the faction's Dreadnoughts almost half of my time in space, and the amount of Outcast capwhoring hasn't gone down at all.

Also, I resent the term Capwhore, astute as it may be. Can we label the behavior instead of the person, plox? Cap Abuse is so much nicer and un-accusatory than Capwhore.

Here's how to reduce Cap Abuse:

Guard Systems. Guard ID. Full Green Guard Rep. Conservative Factions.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Xing]

something id like to point out...
many of us prefer to do our roleplay in group channel for various reason, not the least being that we set up combat strategies (yes, there are strategies if you wonder.)

I noticed many time how a roleplay on system can quickly turn chaotic when too many people try to involve themselves in it; some with good intent, some with the intent at ridicule the roleplayers, while others just dont know what is going on but jump on the opportunity, making an incredibly chaotic story at the end. This is perhaps a reason why no one seems to roleplay in liberty while in fact, we do a lot on group channel (at least, those channels in which I am usually are...)

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[Zapp]

/signed

At least the LPI doesn't/can't capwhore like the LN...:P

We can. The LPI-Leavenworth is a decommissioned LN Dreadnought that we have, though it can't leave New York, previously known as the LPI-Rusty.Donut.

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[frozen]

Ok, so a discussion in another thread got me thinking about this...

Basically as we all know we do have a capwhore problem, that is people that buy capships ONLY to kill people in combat and not rp but who's fault is it? it is easy to blame the people that do it, but what if they are just new players who don't know better? who were never exposed to great RP when they were new?

Most factions that I've seen try to reduce the Capship spam, by using only fighters BUT still have capships in reserve. Now the only time you see these capships ever online is when there is a threat, like enemy capships in the area.

Think about it.. a new player comes on, is amazed at the capships BUT the only time he ever sees them is when they are PVPing. After the PVP is over the capships simply disapear, offering not much RP. This may give an impression that that is all capships are good for.
Now the Radical idea is for Factions to start using their capships MORE often. Crazy right? Keep on reading and you'll see where I'm going. Most here can agree that the Factions are looked up upon by many, their RP in their fighters are often superb but their capships lack the same quality of RP. Often the capships stay offline collecting dust until they are needed to kill something, then after it is dead, they go back offline. What if the official Factions had a capship online and present almost all the time. I"m not saying to PVP whore it, but RP it. RP the standard operations, the boring stuff about captaining a capship(but it doesn't have to be boring either of course). When PVP arrives, you don't have to go fight but can command the fighters from wherever you are stationed but the key thing is to not simply disappear after the PVP ends. Capships, especially dreadnoughts shouldn't just disappear (unless they have a cloak but thats a whole different story) and there is much more to their operation then just flying in and killing things. All of this adds to the impression that capships are much more then just PVP tools.

So think about it, if a Faction kept say, their flagship online often, and RPing allot, perhaps we could stem the tide of capwhores with no RP. If new players are exposed to well RPed capships and don't only see them as fighting machines maybe, just maybe a few of these "future" capwhores can be changed, perhaps even make them want a capship even more, but for a whole different reason. Not to own everything in PVP but to RP.

Before we can get rid of capwhores the first step is to get rid of the image that a capship is ONLY there to kill things and I think the official factions and even indies in capships are perfect for the job, as long as it is done responsibly.
Think about it, its a crazy idea but what if it is true? I wonder how many of the current capwhores could have been changed by being exposed to great rp out of capships in the past?

Break off into groups and discuss, though please no flaming of anyone, official factions or indies... we are all responsible for fixing this problem.

i got flamed in pm (in game) for using my HF BC, and the Incursus to setup a lil RP i was conducting, AND i had a player (incidentally, hes on disco forums as well) tell me this (ive got screenshots of the entire convo, but heres a general idea of what was said to me): anytime the HF decides to come to NY, they should come only in fighters and bombers, and not take out their caps, but we, LN/LSF/LNS/Indys have the right to spam as many caps as we want, cuz 'fighter and bomber combat is way too fast for us to handle'

its things such as these which make me think: lolwut? what does Liberty really want? to win every fight they face? and if we come in bombers and fighters, we face people (respectable people) on discovery setup missile boats and missile fighters, and call in a cruiser and a couple of gbs for support agianst a lone bomber.

if this isnt PVP orientated, then hell, i dunno what is. which is why im currently enjoying myself playing anything and everything but freelancer.

im not trying to flame anyone here (and i hope it stays that way), but im more trying to understand what the hell does liberty want from its enemies? to just roll over and die for them? NO RP whatsoever? Oh yes, i get the occasional RP from like 1 faction member out of 20, but is that it? ive had more fun on my camera ship flying alone taking pictures :/

EDIT: and for once, in a long while, i think i agree with the point eppy makes. caps need to be sold on guard bases for full green rep

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[Erythnul]

Look, it's remarkably simple to predict the effect increased capital presence would have in Liberty.

Firstly and most importantly, pirates would compensate. We, the Rogues, would, in all likelihood, exchange our Greyhounds for Falcatas, as the Barghest's not a combat-effective vessel; thereby decreasing piratical roleplay value as Liberty factions metamorphose into merely yet another collection of Outcast clones.

Secondly, as is obvious by point one, any increase in capital ship activity wouldn't last. Obviously, facing a force composed mainly of bombers necessitates a counter, as well; the Navy would abandon larger vessels in favor of something capable of countering bombers. We'd then switch back to Greyhounds or their local equivalents, and the Navy would roll out capships once more..

See where this is going? Essentially, speaking from a PvP point of view, any overt change in ship distribution isn't likely to remain constant for very long times at all.

Thirdly, rather than educating ignorant newcomers on proper roleplay methods, increased capital ship presence in Liberty would likely act as an attractor for those that simply want size and power out of their Freelancer experience. After all, what's more enthralling than allying oneself with a player faction consisting of a flotilla of colossal vessels? Furthermore, such an overbearing military presence might possibly deter new players from creating pirates, rendering a large capital ship presence unnecessary anyway.

Lastly, from a roleplay point of view, large vessels are only actually dispatched to deal with suitably large threats. Active employment of garguantuan warships would render Liberty quite the Orwellian state; think back to Rheinland in the single-player campaign. Did that seem like a welcoming atmosphere or like a benevolent government interested in defending its people? Quite the converse. Warships ought never to be deployed on a regular basis, excepting stationary vessels tasked with protecting a specific region, such as the Missouri or the Rio Grande - employing dreadnoughts to crush Bloodhounds is not merely shooting flies with a rifle, but actually leads to a totalitarian situation the average Libertonian would never tolerate. Even if Liberty should be or should become tainted (as I firmly believe it is), it must maintain the illusion of benign interest. Examine the news items displayed in single-player after the Unity, Harmony, and its third unnamed equivalent are deployed to guard New York jump gates after Ashcroft's apprehension.

In a nutshell, capital ship deployment is a tool that practically begs to be employed as a sledgehammer, but is actually more suited for precise, delicate work - aside from being infeasible as a PvP tactic, roleplay as a whole is enhanced if the machines of war are employed in moderation.

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Troy Bellarosa

Unioners for Dummies - the comprehensive guide to Unioner history!

anime.... its about as bad as hentai.

[MB52]

Well, the problem with caps being sold on guard bases only, is it only delays the inevitable. We can almost never stop people from acquiring the ships, but we can play a key role in developing their RP and showing them how it is done right.

Xing, I know what you mean about strategies and such, but for other things even minor things it would do alot of good to say it in System, just so everyone can hear. I suppose the poor chat system in freelancer limits us in this regard though, so you are right groups are often needed for the large busy systems (like newyork)

Eppy, I'm glad to hear you do this already but you operate in the far corners of Sirius correct? It is possible the root of the problem lies in the core worlds and by the time they reach your zone of influence they are already corrupted? Just a thought... maybe there is no hope, I personally prefer to think there is hope for new players.

Frozen, I can't really speak for the LN, but what I look for is mutual enjoyment for both sides, if my capship drops in on a lone fighter, I won't be blasting him out of the sky, I'll RP with him for awhile if he/she so chooses to do so, if not, they are free to go on their way.

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I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust