Hyung, your sentiment is self-righteous and hypocritical. Roleplay is NOT an objective affair; it is graded relative to the community as a whole. "OPEN FIRE! PEW PEW PEW!" is unfortunately NOT acceptable roleplay and is NOT as valid as Wesley Richter. Though every player here may roleplay as he pleases, do NOT expect that the affairs of a Diamond/Niobium power trader are equivalent to the elaborate, logical, and gripping stories of a talented writer.
All players have an equal right to expand upon their characters. However, motivation varies, as do skill and intent. Roleplay is subjective, and the degree to which a player's roleplay is respected is based upon its quality.
One player's roleplay does not equal another's, and one player's roleplay may easily be superior to another's. Please don't pretend otherwise, Hyung - roleplay does not conform to any set standard, but rather to the talent of the person behind it. Individual opinion aside, in the meritocratic society in which we all live, skill determines ranking.
(Don't say anything about the Admins, reasons explained privately.)
If you ever need any help, I'm your man.
Safe travels.
Thanks, but I honestly don't think I will be sticking around the Discovery RP server, which is a shame because I love the Discovery Mod and the thought of a large, open RP Freelancer Server makes me reminiscent for the old days of Playing Traveler all night with friends, and Elite all day at School (Now I feel old.)
Discovery's RP server has some really cool cats on it, and the handful of truly talented RP'ers who make the game world feel vibrant and alive almost make it worth dealing with the Smacktards and RP Elitist "My bullets shoot around corners" crowd, almost... but sadly not quite.
Hatred if you read this, please don't leave. This is a great community, and
there is gold to discover, but we (each of us individually) must get through
the trash and find that gold. I find your posts quite refreshing.
---------------------
Erythnul Are you referring to my first post, my second one, or the viewpoint
that you perceive me as having, in me being self-righteous and hypocritical? That is the
danger of making posts like I did, as people can easily think I am doing the same
things that I'm 'Exposing" on. By the way, you personally attacked me and seemed
to have missed what the point of my first and second post was about. Hatred said it well:
Hatred Wrote:Remember, Comprehension is the most important part of reading.
That is a large issue for the player base on this server. The forums are so
complicated that its difficult even for older-members to know what is happening.
As a number of polls have shown on this server, the majority of the player base
is around 16-18, with some sprinkles of other age ranges here and there. Age
doesn't really have a majority bearing on comprehension levels, as you can be
an idiot at 2/35/70 and still function normally. But it seems that there are people
who regularly 'forget' to read the infocards, let alone the server rules. And as a
consequence of their actions, they get sanctioned. And there are other people
who fully understanding the server rules, STILL RAG ON OTHER PEOPLE for being
OORP in System and publically on these forums.
As far as I am aware, I did not write the first or second posts in a hypocritical
and self-righteous manner. I remember feeling sadness and anguish, coming from
an anger at how we treat each other, which is where this thread sprang from.
The entire first and second posts, can be summed up like this:
Stop Rule lawyering. Its hurting you and me.
Stop calling other peoples Roleplay as "OORP'. Because you can't possibly
know that. You may think it but don't say it over system. Or on these forums so blatently.
Leave the sanction threats and stuff to the Admins.
Treat other people how you want to be treated.
Lets have fun together.
Erythnul I'm sorry that you feel I'm being self-righteous and hypocritical in saying
these things, but that does not take away the validity of what I have said.
---------------------
I'm well aware that skill and motivation comes into how well someone
can roleplay. There are natural drama queens (in a good sense), and there
are people who operate more on a logical level. And everything in between or both.
There are people with imaginations that rival or beat Picasso, and there are
people who, on the surface, have no imagination. There are people who can write
lavish eloquent stories and there are people who can write "OPEN FIRE, PEW PEW!!"
There are people that can write up what they need to within 5 minutes, and there are
people who take 5 months to get the comprehending necessary to say, "I wish to register
my Outcast Destroyer." All of these are taken into account when I say:
"Stop rule-lawyering each other and calling other people's roleplay as OORP.
You're being judgmental and hurting yourselves and us."
There IS a place for all levels of Roleplay on this server. If you really think someone
is being OORP, dont just blast them for it publicly AS A FIRST REACTION.
Instead, ask them questions, as there may be more to the story than you realize.
Asking someone questions and being friendly will go a long way to helping that person
and this community to integrate newbies and 'veterens' roleplay alike, instead of alienating them
like Hatred and numerous other have pointed out that we are doing.
Leave the 'You are OORP' and rule lawyering to the Admins.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
' Wrote:Thanks, but I honestly don't think I will be sticking around the Discovery RP server, which is a shame because I love the Discovery Mod and the thought of a large, open RP Freelancer Server makes me reminiscent for the old days of Playing Traveler all night with friends, and Elite all day at School (Now I feel old.)
Discovery's RP server has some really cool cats on it, and the handful of truly talented RP'ers who make the game world feel vibrant and alive almost make it worth dealing with the Smacktards and RP Elitist "My bullets shoot around corners" crowd, almost... but sadly not quite.
However I wish you all the best.
I'll show you around, stay for a bit and re-evaluate.
I'm glad someone on this forum, who has very little posts, has the guts to say things as he sees it and is not intimidated by elitist post haulers or the consequences of not kissing faction butt.
Contact me via PM if you want to give this another go.
I highly doubt I misunderstood your argument. I'm referring to your viewpoint as self-righteous, not your person. I have no problem with you, just the point you're trying to make.
Quite simply,
Quote:There IS a place for all levels of Roleplay on this server.
is incorrect, in my opinion. There is not.
You use the term "OORP" very loosely. I choose to define "OORP" as something that directly contravenes established lore. Should such a case actually arise, it must be dealt with in that the conflict must be resolved in order to retain continuity. I doubt you'll disagree with me in that regard. I also agree that roleplay that doesn't create a paradoxical situation per se shouldn't be called OORP, as doing so is at odds with how I define the term.
However, where we seem to diverge in opinion is that all roleplay is equally valid. It is not. The average bounty hunter gunboat I encounter as Jonas or Robert elicits, at most, an "open fire!!" before letting rip. I have no problem with this from a PvP point of view - I can easily dodge most incoming capital fire. It's their pathetic excuses for player killing that irritate me and that need to be criticized and changed Putative efforts at roleplay should be encouraged, yes, but by no means left as such. Certain roleplay is better than others, that's simple fact. While inexperienced roleplayers shouldn't be mocked, neither should their efforts simply be accepted as such. Such efforts should be improved upon, but not just permitted to abide as such. It's our duty to the server to stop capwhores from remaining capwhores and to try to improve the status quo as a whole.
Frankly, there's just so much bloody-minded stupidity out there (ever tried roleplaying while pirating a trader only to be answered with roleplay abuse like "im a zoner u cant pirate me:)" or "my brother has a cruiser and hell come and kill u lol") that we can't ignore it and let it go in the spirit of everyone being permittted to freestyle as they please. If somebody has poor roleplay or poor implementation, we shouldn't shoot them down, sure, but neither can we accept it. There's a certain bottom line, in my opinion, that everybody should try to attain.
' Wrote:I highly doubt I misunderstood your argument. I'm referring to your viewpoint as self-righteous, not your person. I have no problem with you, just the point you're trying to make.
Quote:=Hyung
There IS a place for all levels of Roleplay on this server.
Quite simply, is incorrect, in my opinion. There is not.
There is a place for all levels of legitimate roleplay.
Quote:You use the term "OORP" very loosely. I choose to define "OORP" as something that directly contravenes established lore. Should such a case actually arise, it must be dealt with in that the conflict must be resolved in order to retain continuity. I doubt you'll disagree with me in that regard. I also agree that roleplay that doesn't create a paradoxical situation per se shouldn't be called OORP, as doing so is at odds with how I define the term.
However, where we seem to diverge in opinion is that all roleplay is equally valid. It is not. The average bounty hunter gunboat I encounter as Jonas or Robert elicits, at most, an "open fire!!" before letting rip. I have no problem with this from a PvP point of view - I can easily dodge most incoming capital fire. It's their pathetic excuses for player killing that irritate me and that need to be criticized and changed Putative efforts at roleplay should be encouraged, yes, but by no means left as such. Certain roleplay is better than others, that's simple fact. While inexperienced roleplayers shouldn't be mocked, neither should their efforts simply be accepted as such. Such efforts should be improved upon, but not just permitted to abide as such. It's our duty to the server to stop capwhores from remaining capwhores and to try to improve the status quo as a whole.
I think we are saying the same things in a different way.
You are focused on one issue here. I am not calling all roleplay as valid. I specifically said that:
if it doesnt break server rules
if it adheres to an Freelancer in-universe common sense
..then it can be called legitimate roleplay. You cannot call someones setup, or roleplay as 'out-of-role-play'. Simply for the fact that you might not have the whole story. What I am targeting in this thread is the instant "YOU CAN'T DO THAT, YOU ARE BEING OORP," tendency that is VERY prevalent ingame and here on these forums. That is accusatory and does not help the person to whom you are saying it. It is destructive to relationships and the good of this community and can be seen as personally attacking a player, rather than
Like I said in my first post, It is NOT your duty to stop other people from having a Capital ship, simply because of a perceived 'Cap-whore" issue. That is the admins duty, if it is found that they are being PVP abusive or OORP in actuality. Too many people here on these forums are trying to do the admins job.
What you ARE is a Discovery community member and as such have the same value as other members.
What you cannot do as a member is say to another person - without finding out the whole story - "YOU ARE BEING OORP." I have to use the 'OORP' term very loosely, because I must. Legitimate roleplay is too broad for one person, or even a group of persons to define. In a faction that factions roleplay is determined by the faction leaders, and if allowed, its members. Discovery Roleplay server itself is too large for any one person to define what is OORP and what is not. People may very well WANT to roleplay a rogue Liberty Navy, or an independent Corsair. But it should be done in legitimate roleplay way, not 'I stoled it!'
Now I'm tired of repeating the same points over and over, in different ways,
so I'm going to go in game and PVP someone.
n00bl3t Wrote:I'm glad someone on this forum, who has very little posts, has the guts to say things as he sees it and is not intimidated by elitist post haulers or the consequences of not kissing faction butt.
I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but I rep-resent that implication:D
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
Before I comment again, I'd like to have one thing clarified. You say it's not a player's right to call another player OORP. By "OORP", do you mean calling the other player's roleplay *of low quality* or *not permissible*?
Well I dont know. I'm wanting people to stop saying 'OORP' and 'playing admin' when talking
about other peoples roleplay, and instead suggest things that might help.
Be constructive instead of negative.
Be helpful instead of pulling down.
Be gentle towards other people instead of violent and angry.
Advise but dont restrict.
(I'm saying these to myself here as well. I have had a background of
legalism and authority abuse, and struggled with the effects on MY life.
I believe I am fully qualified to tell other people to stop being judgmental,
because I have been myself and I have seen the effect of judgmentalism from
my own life into others. I used to hurt people - unwittingly -, and our relationships suffered.
And I STILL have to work at this, even here.
In the last couple of months I was judgemental and hurt other people HERE on these
forums. My eyes finally became open to what I was doing. Now I'm making a big effort
to be inclusive, instead of exclusive - (How can we play together Vs. my way or the highway.)
And at the same time seeing what other people are doing to each other here.
Instead of letting this destructive behavior continue, I felt the need to speak
about what we are doing to each other.
Unfortunatly, it's very easy to take something like what I posted as a personal attack,
when it is not intended as such.
So in closing, let us help the new people to become better, not by attacking them, but by gently guiding them.
Lets not become stale and stagnant in our own roleplay that we forget to take advice ourselves.
Let's get onto legitimate roleplay, not bringing outside stories into Freelancer.
Lets play, TOGETHER, and stop ripping each other apart on petty little things that dont matter.
Lets help the new people to learn what and how to roleplay instead of just saying 'You are OORP'.
Whatever that means.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
' Wrote:Hatred if you read this, please don't leave. This is a great community, and
there is gold to discover, but we (each of us individually) must get through
the trash and find that gold. I find your posts quite refreshing.
The problem here is that most of the group that came here together with Hatred have run into far more "BANG!" and then no RP than they have into actual RP. Don't worry though, if someone manages to RP and then kill their attacker they generally get threatened with sanctioning by the loser.
We have player factions that are supported by administration essentially locking off entire areas to a majority of character types as long as, through their already superior firepower, they can enforce it and make an excuse for it that isn't actually RP'd in game, though it might be justified in the forums.
The forums themselves are a river of flotsam with occasional eddies where amusement may gather. 90% of the threads I've seen have devolved into arguments based on "no your RP is wrong!" between one group and another.
I can't really see why most of the group would want to stay around at this point. It may be possible to pan for gold, but I'm not sure it's worth doing so in polluted waters.
I truly do thank you for your offer and the spirit in which you have offered to help, but as I said before and as Minimal has reiterated, I came to Discovery with a group of friends 10 strong, with another 5 who were sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happened before they picked up the game.
All of us are Heavy RP'ers, who have known each other and RP'ed together in Table Top, as well as numerous games and MMO's and for years.
All 10 of us has been significantly harassed or soured enough to the point that we are now playing on our own Private Server via Hamachi.
Our first night on Discovery, one of our Number was blown up for being in a CSV without having a high Junker Faction by a Fellow Player... when our group were all still around 20.
The reason given? Our friend didn't have high enough Junker Faction to fly a CSV. We tried to RP and interact with this individual, all he wanted to do was blow us up... we explained OOC that we were all under level 30 and that we had no interest in PVP'ing with him right now as newbies, all he wanted to do was blow us up... and then he preceded to follow us Zone to Zone, area to area, harassing our number at every available opportunity.
Asshattery, under the very thin guise of RP, is still asshattery, and every day that we have logged in for the past week, something has happened to one of our number that has destroyed the fun of the group as a whole and left a very bitter taste in our mouths.
It is not just the play experience of one RP'er... but a group of RP'ers, and even if I was tempted to dig in the dirt to find the solid gold at the heart of the Discovery Community, I really have no interest in doing that without my friends.
![[Image: hG0lGaj.png]](https://i.imgur.com/hG0lGaj.png)