' Wrote:The SN doesn't need to be changed. Just don't fly straight at one.
.... That takes quite a long time to reduce to zero with regular guns - and that's ignoring the shield and regens. What invariably happens is that the VHF pilot gets bored or lazy or both and after a while starts to joust the bomber in an attempt to cause more damage or land razor hits with greater frequency. A little aim practice on the part of a bomber pilot and boom.
I was about to say the same thing. Time and again this happens. I myself succumb to this. Mainly because I don't love 30mins to 1h fight and want to see things through quickly. So I start to take bigger risks. Sometimes they pay off and sometimes I pay through the nose.
There are some who are very proficient flying a bomber in group fights and are able to SNAC those who are not even jousting them.
A lone bomber (or 2) is/are not usually a problem in any of the group fights as long as you and couple guys keep the pressure on him/them constantly.
The bomber pilots would have a very hard time scoring the kills if every man in the group tussle would remember one golden rule. When your shields are down; do not try to shoot anything. Just evade. But I know the allure of personal glory and "helping" out shooting down a guy even when you are clearly being targeted can be too great then it can be very quickly pod-time for you.
But problems arise in a group fight if you have inexperienced fellows flying with you making them flying bot/bat storages for the opposition. Or you face 3-4 bombers flying among the opposing forces. Then your chances in fighter don't look that good since those bombers will land eventually the lucky SNAC on you.
The only time a bomber is able to kill a fighter in a fight (small skirmish or 1on1)
A) fighter is jousting bomber
B) fighter is taking chances (trying to shoot too greedily at the opposition) when it's shields are down
C) bomber pilot is very, very good SNAC shooter (deflection shots). And in this case I think he deserves the kill because of the skill.
I'm with the ones who say that contrary to the popular belief bombers are easy to fight in against fighters. It takes a lot more skill in my opinion to fight effectively in a bomber in a fighter skirmish than in a fighter. And it takes skill to fire that SNAC in fight where your opposition knows what they are doing.
on the topic:
SNAC is fine. Maybe define the role of bombers a bit more and make the more agile bombers a bit more cumbersome to fly which would increase the fighters odds and effectiveness in their role of escorts.
A one rather elegant solution to the problem with fighters taking ages to bring a bomber down would be to lower the regens bomber have. I don't mind the number of batteries they currently have (they are fast used as it is) but maybe give only 50 bots per bomber. It would not change the game mechanics one bit, meaning fighters who joust would still be paying the penalty, but it would not take ages to wear down a bomber either. I don't know if the number of bats is independent of the number of bots. If so boost the shield battery amount and lower the bots. Problem solved.
' Wrote:The problem with this approach is that bombers can equip the same guns as fighter do.
Yes, but Bombers - with their reduced turn rate - cant dogfight as effectively as fighters. For a bomber to track a fighter trying to get behind him, he has to either EK and drift away, or slow to a near stop.
In a joust - it doesnt matter if the speed is 500 or 1000, if you dont strafe you will get hit regardless. Increasing speed for some guns increases the hit probability for a given weapon.
Perhaps I should clarify and state 'increase projectile speed' on guns that might be specifically termed 'anti-aircraft' guns, as opposed to massive damage guns like most of the CODENAME weapons.
' Wrote:What I think is a good idea is changing normal bomber guns (as Kress suggested), so that they don't use fighter guns but a completely different class with something like
1.00-2.00 refire, ~1500 damage per shot, some 300 energy per shot, ~800m range, 400-500m/s speed.
Bomber SNing things by itself is not so big problem. What I see as a problem is that if it's not targeted it can fire guns and hit fighters with them rather fine. If fighters decide to hit bomber instead it can hit them even easier with guns (say 4 Debs)... and fire mini/sn in between. So changing their gun slots would actually change a lot in anti-fighter use.
Only change to this suggestion that I would add is to make that 1500 shield damage (maybe more if it is felt necessary), and 300-400 m/s speed. That would prevent people from using bombers as fighters, give bombers more anti-cap capability (give the guns a range of like 1k, or somewhere just beyond the max flak range-add a bit of interest along the lines of "get too close, get murdered, get to far, unable to hurt"), and still keep the superiority of the MR and the Inferno (which, after all, are using torp slots, so should be more powerful (but use more energy)).
Ideally, of course, just strip the gun slots off all bombers and add another torp slot (or CD slot), so you can mount MR/SN/CD, or even MR/SN/nova, but complete lack of guns would leave the best antifighter loadout as 3 MRs...which really isn't gonna take down a cruiser in anything like a short space of time...might as well get a fighter instead...
' Wrote:
on the topic:
SNAC is fine. Maybe define the role of bombers a bit more
this is something i thought about earlier. why not redefine the fighters classes a bit more.
bombers: make them actual bombers. 2 heavy anti-cap weapons, maybe 1-2 weak guns and nothing else. and almost GB agility & slow aceleration.
VHF: make them fighter bombers. 1 heavy anti-cap weapon, maybe 3-4 guns, maybe a mine and nothing else. lessen their agility a bit & a bit slower aceleration.
HF: make them a space superiority fighter. they should be the goto ship when fighting another fighter class. no heavy anti-cap weapons, 4-8 guns, mines, CD. leave their speed & agility as it is.
LF: make them interceptors. 2-3 weak guns, CD, & nothing else. super fast accelerating ships (including cruise) and leave their agility how it is.
there is some definition of fighter class roles right now but not nearly enough.
bombers should be strictly anti-cap, VHF are an odd ball. them being the bombers of old, they should now be combination of a slow fighter & a weak bomber. HF's should own all fighter classes. and LF's should be left for scouting and intercepting fleeing enemies.
this is all based off of same skill levels. there will still be the odd expert landing a SN shot against an inferior skilled opponent no matter what you do.
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