Police Factions - Ment to Fail?

[Cawdor]

Gentlemen, let me begin this rather important topic with a comparsion of a House' Military and Police:

Military:

- Zone of interest:

• Core Territory
  
• Borderworlds
  
• Enemy Territory
  

- Motor Pool

• LF, (HF), VHF
  
• Bombers
  
• All capital ship classes
  

- Tasks

• Enforce Laws
  
• Scan for contraband
  
• Fight Wars
  
• Chase Terrorists/Criminals into the Borderworlds
  

Police:

- Zone of interest:

• Core Territory
  

- Motor Pool

• LF
  

- Tasks

• Enforce Laws
  
• Scan for contraband
  

Seeing these stats, one question comes into ones mind: Why should I join a police faction, if the Military can do EVERYTHING what the police can AND has more authorities?
The answer is at hand: You don't.

All police factions of the community suffer from major inactivity. They are resurrected from time to time - you will find 2 or even 3 officers online at a time - but a police character is a toy that becomes boring pretty fast, even if you dig it out after a long time.

While KSP didn't even made it on the list of official factions (less than 5 players) and RFP and BPA suffer from chronic inactivity, Zapp, who was leading the LPI a while back, came up with an RP concept to make the LPI more entertaining on a long shot. Now as we all know our donut addicted, willfully incompetend and never serious police officers, I don't need to go into detail here. The main concept though, was to parody the weakness of the LPI.

Which leads us to our next point. Especially in NY, it can be rather though to enforce the House' Laws with a light fighter. It is quite hard indeed, to tell the Battlestar with the nomad weapons in his hold, to get a nomad license, when all your arguments in a heated debate with the Battleship are your two 8s and another pair of 9s.
Of course, this is a worst case scenario but it doesnt look much better in other houses (a brief selection of all day routine problems):

• Smugglers in Trains will always tell your LF to GTFO
  
• Various Capital ship classes at the s13 hole or at NB it self, don't even look at the RFP officer
  
• The Corsair-Gunboats in Cambridge will just hunt the officer of the crown down to the planet and camp it. The BPA is not amused.
  

Now to top that off, some houses even start to pay bounty hunters to do additional police work: Scan for contraband, kill smugglers, hunt pirates.

Now, dear readers, I know at this point, you are filled with sadness and even rage about the unacceptable circumstances under which our beloved police factions have to suffer. I can already see that you are about to spam "SAVE THE POLICE" and "DOWN WITH THE NAVY" and hack our forums. But lets stay focused here, gentlemen. How can we improve the police' situation by eventually making them a valuable part of a house security management and role play?
As I am sure you are eager to post your ideas, let me make the first step to start our discussion by humbly presenting some short points dedicated to our problem.

1. The navy must not scan for contraband
Ever seen Tanks patrolling your block to find criminals or drug dealers? Me neither.
2. The navy must not be allowed to fly LFs
A measure already taken by the RM. If you want to fly that damn little thingus, get a police ID!
3. One bomber per faction
I think it is appropriate to offer each police faction one shared bomber, to keep the smugglers in line and have a little chance about Sirius' Gangsters in Gunboats and Battleships.

and if worse comes to worst:

4. Police and Navy should share Members
I believe that it would be the best and fastest way for a house' security to have the Military pilot hop on his police char to scan those traders and, on the other hand, have the police man getting the Military if an enemy task force is inbound. (I know its a controversial Idea, since you would rather kill a police faction, and throw it in the navy pool)

Discuss

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[bluntpencil2001]

I utterly disagree with disallowing Militaries LFs.

LFs have a very important niche in military conflicts. And besides, if only the police are allowed them, that would mean that when the enemy send in their VHFs and bombers, the military at the border cry to the Police for help.

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[Orin]

I've been saying this forever. Naval and Military forces do not need to intercept smugglers and arrest petty thieves. That's police business 99% of the time IRL, and it should be in game as well. Of course, if things get out of control, Military and Naval forces could be called in for support.

Although, your diagram is off. The LPI has a SWAT team flying bombers.

[Jinx]

well - blaming someone usually becomes blaming the player and not the roleplayed char. - but a reason to play police instead of military is to have an easier life. - as a police, i can back off a threat that is too great for me to deal with. - the military however... as the strongest powers available for the lawfuls must not back off... but sometimes fight even a loosing battle.

so, lets say - there is a gunship violating the law, the police is intercepting it in a typical light fighter; the police would have a good reason to "let go" and turn a blind eye on him - or passivly requesting backups by hte military.

the military however should not do that. - for one, they have no one but themselves to call for backup... for another, if its not them to stop them... who is left?

so, when picking the military, you also pick the greater responsibility. - when picking police, you take the easier job. - you can always say "its too hard, i cannot do it". - of course, a lone military tagged fighter cannot take a gunboat either... but in RP, it still is the last power that can stop it.

the police has a reason to be there - a problem is that authority is not supported by any tool. - the military executes martial law, somewhat. - when they are involved, it usually means "death sentence" ... the police should not kill, but rather derail hostilities. - now, the game engine does not provide any thing to do so. - there is no way to imprison a pilot, or disable its weapons and ship. - so the police must destroy, too ... and for that, it lacks the tools. - but thats not a problem of the police as a faction, but its a problem of whats possible to roleplay.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Orin]

Good points, Jinx. But they still miss the obvious point that Military need to do less. Period.

Police do just that. Police. Military do what? They wage war, and protect the country they serve with force. A little Rogue in NY is not an excuse to pull out the heavy artillery. If a man holds up a convenience store, does the army roll in with fighters and tanks? No. A few police cruisers roll in and take care of it. With words, first off.

Now if Hellfires invade, or there's an Outcast strike team, roll in the heavy artillery by all means.

[Cawdor]

Do you guys think that it would be enough if the military stops dealing with smugglers and the police use such a "SWAT team" on a regular basis?

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[Orin]

I think if the Military stops intercepting smugglers and lighting up petty crooks it would be enough.

Well, not necessarily enough, but much better than it is now.

[bluntpencil2001]

Possibly.

The thing is, in real life, smuggling at sea is usually dealt with by the Coast Guard, right?

Aren't the Coast Guard often considered military?

Note that 'petty crooks' in Disco have access to advanced, military technology such as gunboats, bombers, level 9 and 10 guns et cetera. That's like a robber armed with an assault rifle or tank.

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[Orin]

Well, seeing as the Coast Guard doesn't have battleships and assault cruisers meant for war, that doesn't really fit. They work more under the facade of a policing group than a military.


EDIT: Noted. That's why I said that Military could be called in when needed. Still, the SWAT team can't handle a Rogue GB or two?

[pchwang]

I disagree with this absolutely.

While I understand your points, von Gotteshand, and the possibility that it could help something like the BPA, I still disagree.

Instead, I would vouch for the expansion of police duties:

Police:

- Zone of interest:

* Core Territory

- Motor Pool

* LF/Transports/HFs/VHFs

- Tasks

* Enforce Laws
* Scan for contraband
* Escort Transports
* Fly Elderly Across Trade Lanes
* Engage Terrorists

90% of the time, the military never arrives on time to hit the terrorists hard enough. Which is why the BPA is perfectly capable of handling such situations themselves, sirrah!

EDIT: Yes the US Coast Guard is part of the military, since it used to be the Navy's Revenue Cutter Service. I almost joined the Coast Guard...this is why I know...

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

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