Ok, sorry if this article came off as me 'whinging', all i was asking was whether or not capital ships (namely cruisers and BS's because a GB can hold itself against a Bomber) in 4.85 will get anti-bomber weapons: things like flak turrets, the ones currently in the game are weird...its just a single bullet, not a real 'flak'. Oh, and the statement of the bomber vs a fighter was completely irrelevant (it was late and my mind was wandering:D).
from what I understand, no real changes specifically for this purpose are being made. Cruiser/battleship missiles do work against bombers, they're just hard to hit with. Battleships have flak cannons which are also hard to use but fairly effective if you get the hang of them.
Cruisers are, from what i've heard, being focused on a long-range support fire role in 4.85 - meaning they'll probably be even weaker against bombers, but will have the ability to pummel other capships from a distance, making them ideal for taking out battleships or gunboats.
Regular turrets work great vs bombers.... Man, i hope they don't change cruisers too much. it is pretty rare you have to use one to take on bigger caps
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' Wrote:Regular turrets work great vs bombers.... Man, i hope they don't change cruisers too much. it is pretty rare you have to use one to take on bigger caps
right now cruisers really dont have any specific role. They're gunboats that cant turn and battleships without firepower. Of the four cap classes (gunboats/cruisers/battlecruisers/battleships), cruisers (and to a lesser extent battlecruisers) are currently the weakest, with a few exceptions like the kusari destroyer. The reason you see so many cruisers is because they 'seem' powerful and dont cost as much as a bc or bs. Cruisers are great for handling npcs, especially out in the omicrons, and most cruisers if flown well can take out gunboats without too much trouble.
Problem is, any single bomber pilot who's halfway decent can destroy a cruiser on his own, and I know people are going to object and say i'm bullsh!tting here but I've seen it happen time and time again. Cruisers cannot take on larger ships (BC's/BS's) on their own in most circumstances, and a good gunboat/gunship pilot or a pair of average gunboat/gunship pilots can pretty easily destroy you.
Cruisers really need a niche, something they're good at that the other ship classes arent. I may be wrong here, but -from what i've heard- cruisers are being given that niche via a long-range fire support role. If that's true then they should end up with the longest range guns of any ship in the game, able to 'snipe' other capships from a distance. The only problem there is that if the projectile speed of cruiser turrets isnt improved, then the only enemies you'll be able to utilize a range advantage against will be battleships.
Peh, anyone who thinks cruisers are a worthless class hasn't seen one truely in a close support role. Having a cruiser as just a long range artilary piece really removes its use to many factions. For instance a lot of factions simply do not use caps larger then a cruiser and do not seek to fight a BS head on. They do, however, use them in a small hunting pack for hit and fade, ie the RHA.
If the Cruisers are regulated to ranged combat they will fail completely. It is just too easy to close that distance fast enough that the Cruiser would be completely caught. Also, take the cruisers ability to use it's main weapons against smaller craft at close range and they will be fodder just because fighter cover cannot kill a bomber faster then a bomber can take down a defenseless cruiser.
There really is a way to use them as a great platform and many people can't figure it out and push them as a worthless class. It is not true in any sense. Yes, they are a support ship to some factions, Lib Navy is an example, but a more Bizmarck style raider for others such as the Hessians.
-edit- there is no way that a single bomber can take a well flown Cruiser on its own, anyone who thinks this is true I challenge to do just that vs the Varyag.
Heh, looking back at this post mabye I should just wait and see, the developers arn't idiots, I am sure they have thought it all threw.
' Wrote:2. Anti-bomber weapons for fighters will mostly remain the same but some will get damage increase:
Mini Razor, Sunslayer - by far the best anti bomber weapon 1vs1 even now, Missiles, Mines
Seconding the Sunslayer. I keep one on my fighters and it scares the bejeezus out of every bomber I fight.
Incoming Torpedo.
*shoots debs* Shields failed.
I had a feeling varyag would throw his peice in after that.
Varyag, you might be an exceptional cruiser pilot, and I would venture to say that a majority (not all, but most) of the bomber pilots you've fought were:
a) Not in top notch bombers (i.e. redcats)
b) Not all that good.
I've seen bombers solo cruisers before, and even battlecruisers. It isnt impossible and most pilots here, whether they're in the bomber or in the cruiser+, are really only average pilots.
Cruisers are not easy to fly, most people think "Big capship, powerful guns, strong shield, ezmode" and they're wrong. The problem is that they dont have one area they really excel in like the other two (or three if you count bc's) capship classes do. Gunboats/gunships rely on manuverability and are generally able to dodge most fire from larger caps as well as bombers. Battleships cant dodge at all but have more firepower than the other cap classes. Cruisers are like some meddling inbetween that excels in no area; it might be a balanced class between the others but it isnt focused on anything specific.
I dont think cruisers will change much from their current incarnation in 4.85 - from what i've heard the only change going through is that cruiser weapons will have a longer max range than other capship weapons. That doesnt remove their current ability or make them any weaker when fighting up close, but it gives them a specialization - something they can do that the other ships cant - and that's really what the class needs right now.
It all also depends on what cruiser you fly. I flew a zoner destroyer, which doesnt have really great manuverability (though it definitely isnt the worst of the cruisers), and has a pretty large profile - but it only has 9 guns, making it barely stronger firepower-wise than a gunboat. Cruisers also tend to have power issues in my experience, but that could just be the weapons I used or the zoner dessie's power core itself.
BTW, varyag, you know I'm going to bug the hell out of you when 4.85 rolls around to teach me 2 cruiser =P
I've actually learned more about how to fly cruisers since i started flying a fighter again than I learned in all my time using the zoner destroyer. I've had to fight a lot of them (and some very good cruiser pilots in the bunch) in my fighter (with support of course) and caught on to how they're manuvering and what tactics they use. I just gotta get back in the hang of using one =P
If that is the case, just longer range heh heh right on. Just don't make me mount all mortar style cannon.
I took FPS Doug and a buddy of his 2 on one, I think that is a good example of a good bomber pilot, and the Varyag is as big as a Brit BS. My challenge still stands to any taker.
-edit- I didn't say impossible, I have done it in a falcata. But won't happen VS a well flown ship.
' Wrote:Not sure if this has been answered previously, but will cap ships gain access to anti-bomber weapons in 4.85? When i say 'anti-bomber', obviously i mean weapons that are good only against bombers, not against other capital craft.
Disco already has those, they're called missile turrets:PYou might not kill the bomber, but you're certainly going to wreck most of his equipment in the process.
No longer active online due to a dwindling amount of non-PvP (trading, pirating, mining, etc.) fun in the new version.
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