BHG Warships. A flawed concept?

[greasemunky]

I think that the Battleship is a bit much, but with something small like Gunships, the bounty could be split.

[NonSequitor]

Hmmm... Yep, I think I'm going to take the risk of offending some sensibilities with this post.

The question is whether or not the BH should have warships at all (dessies on up). Many newer players seem to gravitate to the BH. I say "many" because I notice a fair amount going into other factions and procuring their cap ships there.

Since there is no player faction to enforce warship usage (and I don't think it's even possible anymore in light of some current decisions) , many trade until they get enough for a BC or a BS. Dessies don't seem to be too popular. Then the complaints begin. Many are justified complaints centering around lack of rp and fairplay. And some seem to be complaints made for the sake of complaining about something.

However, I am still holding out hope that the next mod's guidelines will help to restrict cap misuse - from all sides. But I'm not so naive as to believe that the entire problem will fade away. Or that everyone will be satisfied.

When I got here a little over a year ago, I wanted to go BH. That was before I even knew about BH warships. I was BH on a previous server, and I thought that would be a fun route to go here.

I was honestly surprised that the BH had a capship line. On the same token, I was suprised that some of the unlawfuls had a capship line. Really.

If you want to approach the question of capships being rp or oorp for a given faction from a semi-realistic (as realistic as you can be in a game) perspective, in all honesty I find it difficult to believe that the BH can construct and maintain a capship fleet. Now gunships / gunboats I see as being possible, but constructing and fielding anything larger would demand an enormous amount of resources. I say this as the owner of a BS and dessie.

Now, if the larger unlawful faction are completely candid with themselves they might come to a similar conclusion about their own fleet compositions. I can say, with a minimum of bias (no one is capable of being completely unbiased), that I have no idea why Corsairs, Outcasts, Lane Hackers, Red Hessians, Blood Dragons, Liberty Rogues, Mollys (hope I didn't leave any of the heavy hitters out) can have the resources to construct anything larger than a gunboat.

Ok, I'm pretty sure that some unlawful faction player with respond with a lengthy post of how his/her faction should have access to everything from gunboats to planet-busting space stations. Everyone has their own rationale of how the status quo is possible. It's a painful proposition to sacrifice perceived benefits.

However, the ultimate decision on capship availability lies with Igiss. This is his baby, after all.

But, if a serious decision were made to to nix warships from the BH, I would hope the decision would extend to the unlawfuls as well. The Zoners and the Order would probably have to lose their warships too, if we were to follow a similar line of logic (any Nomad threat could be countered with gunboats, bombers and fighters, so no real need for anything larger). That way, only House militaries would have warships in their fleets - which makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

[Dashiell]

I think it would be wise to see the BHG split in two: the Guild that hunts bounties in fighters, bombers and gs etc.

and the Core, the militaristic branch of the BHG which focusses on the war with the Order and other parties that deny the Core acces to the nomad technology.

don`t go telling me that Core is sending fighters and gunships to deal with Corsair Dreadnoughts, Osirises, Praefect`s and the lot. because THOSE will be in the Onicrons.

secondly, pirates have the most amazing ships and major fleets. from what money? sticking up traders? smuggling Cardimine? get outta here.

it`s quite simple: in order to let the Omicron War (as I like to call it) be rp-ed good all concerned factions should have equal chances.

and PLEASE stop bashing all the hunters in caps. I admit that the majority (*cries*) behave like primitive apes. But I`ve run into a fair amount of morons in Corsairs caps too. Just try to RP and don`t start off with insults. I for one can quite often be found in the Omicrons and I have gotten some pretty good/funny rp out of it.

---

[Jinx]

when it comes to what faction "should" or "should not" make use of capital warships - the BHG are indeed among those few factions that have a reason to use them. - not to use them like they use the hammerhead - but they have a reason to use them.

there are 2 official WARS going on disco ( in 4.84 ) - one war is between kusari and bretonia - a fully fletched war, including fleet operations, invasions, ambushes, lots of murder and unjustice - well, basicly all the stuff that we perceive as part of a war.

the other official war that is going on is.... no, - not outcast vs. corsairs... and not corsairs vs. hessians, those are hedge conflicts among neighbours - little battles of no significance in the greater terms - conflicts that rage but are not so much war-like.
the only other official war that is taking place is indeed the BHG vs. the order. - both of those factions make use of capital warships in disco. - that is not cause it is need to have capital warships for a war ( see GMG vs. rheinland ) but because it is suggested that in order to survive in such remote systems like the omicrons - a warship fleet is necessary.

we all know that the chances to survive are like 10 times greater when you re flying a light fighter - than they are when you re flying a battlecruiser... but we re speaking in terms of roleplay... and in terms of roleplay, the chances to survive are greater in a capital ship.

there is quite some lore suggesting that a larger ship = safer. - it is ( was ) written in the ID card of the albatross IMG BC, its suggested in some zoner rumors and in the BHG ID cards for some ships and station rumors.

all that are reasons why a faction makes use of capital ships. ( capital ships = ships of a certain size, that can act independly up to a certain extend and that put a very thick wall between the space, which is usually considered to be hostile - and the crew )

then we have a WAR. - which asks those factions that see a need to travel such deep space in capital ships to make use of capital WARships instead. - so they equip their large ships with the tons of armour with dozens of weapons - cause its a war ... a war in deep/remote space.

this is what a character would think of being "reasonable" when he thinks of what ships you need to fight a war waaay off from the core.



all that says nothing about how the BHG warships ruin other players gameplay, mind. - but since you asked about a "flawed concept"... no the concept is not flawed at all, the concept itself is sound and logical.

all the rest........... is up to the players

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Dashiell]

when it comes to what faction "should" or "should not" make use of capital warships - the BHG are indeed among those few factions that have a reason to use them. - not to use them like they use the hammerhead - but they have a reason to use them.

there are 2 official WARS going on disco ( in 4.84 ) - one war is between kusari and bretonia - a fully fletched war, including fleet operations, invasions, ambushes, lots of murder and unjustice - well, basicly all the stuff that we perceive as part of a war.

the other official war that is going on is.... no, - not outcast vs. corsairs... and not corsairs vs. hessians, those are hedge conflicts among neighbours - little battles of no significance in the greater terms - conflicts that rage but are not so much war-like.
the only other official war that is taking place is indeed the BHG vs. the order. - both of those factions make use of capital warships in disco. - that is not cause it is need to have capital warships for a war ( see GMG vs. rheinland ) but because it is suggested that in order to survive in such remote systems like the omicrons - a warship fleet is necessary.

we all know that the chances to survive are like 10 times greater when you re flying a light fighter - than they are when you re flying a battlecruiser... but we re speaking in terms of roleplay... and in terms of roleplay, the chances to survive are greater in a capital ship.

there is quite some lore suggesting that a larger ship = safer. - it is ( was ) written in the ID card of the albatross IMG BC, its suggested in some zoner rumors and in the BHG ID cards for some ships and station rumors.

all that are reasons why a faction makes use of capital ships. ( capital ships = ships of a certain size, that can act independly up to a certain extend and that put a very thick wall between the space, which is usually considered to be hostile - and the crew )

then we have a WAR. - which asks those factions that see a need to travel such deep space in capital ships to make use of capital WARships instead. - so they equip their large ships with the tons of armour with dozens of weapons - cause its a war ... a war in deep/remote space.

this is what a character would think of being "reasonable" when he thinks of what ships you need to fight a war waaay off from the core.
all that says nothing about how the BHG warships ruin other players gameplay, mind. - but since you asked about a "flawed concept"... no the concept is not flawed at all, the concept itself is sound and logical.

all the rest........... is up to the players

all I can say is: Amen.

the RP is correct, the concept is correct, the whole excistence of warships is correct.

the behaviour of (most, damn it) BHG cap pilots is incorrect. and therein lies the whole issue.

the BHG is sussepteble for PVP whores because of the freedom players THINK they have as a hunter. no leadership, no restrictions. just roll that BC out the garage and start shooting. that has to change. NOT the ships but the people who fly em.

---

[Agmen of Eladesor]

The point and/or problem is not with the ships themselves, but with the way some people play them. You also have Guild Core versus regular guild as well, with the Guild Core being in a conflict with the Order for Nomad technology.

Have you ever bothered to read the ship descriptions?

BH Destroyer - When Bounty Hunters started operating in Nomad space, they encountered unexpected harships - even the most advanced Hammerheads were unable to survive in hostile environemtnt. Because of the potential profit, Bounty Hunters invested into developing a new Destroyer-class ship that was later constructed in Liberty military shipyards. With their new Destroyers, Bounty Hunters felt more confident among Nomad, Corsair, and Order enemies, being able to hunt Nomads and fulfill bounty contracts against the Corsairs in the most remote parts of known space.

BH Battlecruiser - Being an advanced and heavily reinforced version of the Bounty Hunter Destroyer, the Battlecruiser is a rare and expensive ship used for missions that involve countering enemy capital ships. Hull of this ship can withstand fire of heavy battleship weaponry, and advanced energy supply provide for impressive firepower. However, due to its reduced manueverability, the Battlecruiser can become an easy prey for enemy bombers, and it is advised that this ship should not enter battlefield without figher escort.

BH Battleship - Construction of the first Bounty Hunter Battleship became a symbol of the new Bounty Hunter union. Once a loose association of hunters, the Bounty Hunters Guild grew into a powerful and rich faction present in almost every corner of Sirius. New battleships are intended for usage in remote Edge Worlds systems, mainly to defend convoys and space station construction sites.

Oh, and the errors in language usage are part of the info cards - I copied them straight here.

A powerful and well-organized elite of Bounty Hunters known as the Guild Core is eager to explore Nomad space in search of alien artefacts and technologies that can be found there. Having nearly limitless resources, the Core initiated a bloody war with The Order to gain passage to remote Nomad systems.

Okay, that's all the justification for BHG cap ships needed. (And while I was writing this, Megiddo made HIS post, and I agree with what he wrote. Hey, Megiddo - want to join the S/D?)

Now - again, we get back to the ability or lack thereof for the official factions to restrict cap ship usage. You know that until 4.85 comes out and the sanction / ban hammer swings wide and hard against ALL indie players that violate the terms of their ID's, you're going to have abuse of ships.

Again, how mnay times do we have to say that it's almost entirely indies that are doing it (especially since that group that shall not be named *couchDWcough* left the server)? Do you actually see ANY official BH faction cap ships out there in the lonelyCrons? And so far (and I stress those three words), have you seen ANY official BH faction ships bigger than a gunship actually operating in house space - or for that matter, anywhere they shouldn't be?

As has been said on here again and again, the BHG DOES have reason to have cap ships - now it's up to the players to actually learn to role-play them responsibly. (Otherwise we'd have to talk about how many pirate players there are with caps/gunboats that also don't play them responsibly.)

---

Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Dusty Lens]

This thread has brought up a good point. I'll remedy the BH Cap infocards to cooperate with Kurain's infocard changes.

[Agmen of Eladesor]

This thread has brought up a good point. I'll remedy the BH Cap infocards to cooperate with Kurain's infocard changes.

I've also requested another change to the Core ID info card. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for BH cap ships only operating out in the boonies like Kuraine proposes. I just want to make sure that it's also clarified that sometimes you have to PASS THROUGH house space in your cap ship to either outfit it, or to get from point A to point B.

Do we as hunters have a legitimate reason for these ships? Hell, yes. Do ALL players have a responsibility to play them correctly? Again, yes - and that's where the issue is, IMHO.

---

Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Coin]

and PLEASE stop bashing all the hunters in caps. I admit that the majority (*cries*) behave like primitive apes. But I`ve run into a fair amount of morons in Corsairs caps too. Just try to RP and don`t start off with insults. I for one can quite often be found in the Omicrons and I have gotten some pretty good/funny rp out of it.

I tried flying a cap once on open SP. Horrible nasty lump of a ship, 0-60 in april. There seems to be a mindset that creeps in when you're the proud owner of one of these things: deep in your subconscious, you know that your lack of manoeuvrability will be your downfall: the other guy can avoid your shots, you can't. However, you're putting your faith in the strength of your hull and the power of your guns. This creates within the player a certain outlook on life: the bully.

It's not just the BH or the Pirates who abuse the caps; indies and lawfuls do it too. in fact, its the flying of a capship that does it. So lets lay off the hardware, stop the finger pointing and forum-flame-festing and ask our selves the question:

Am I a cap-ship bully?

---

A Day in the Life of an NPC | Coin | The Journal of Caius Oakley | Build Your Dream Boat

[Cosmos]

actualy corsairs main way of income is pirating/demanding cargo, me thinks.

on a good day you can get 10m in 5mins from traders pirating, when it takes 15mins too get from crete-Texas/NY

---

[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternal†Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)