BHG Warships. A flawed concept?

[Derkylos]

Yeah, corsairs should feed people with battleships, people in create use to eat metal and engines.
I don't know exactly where corsairs got their cap ships, but I can think on a couple of options.
1) From The Hispania.
2) With help from The Order.
3) They have a huge planet which could provide them with material to build their ships.
4) They stolen cap ships and copy models.

The fact that they're pirates don't make them coplete brainless people. They have several bases (in vanilla too), a lot of technology, think on the Tizonas and coladas, they are the number one with that guns.
They could find a way to get cap ships.

Crete doesn't produce much of anything...check the history...the only export is artifacts. Also, they have no more bases than Xenos (in vanilla), and less than Rogues...

However, this isn't about whether Corsairs should have caps, but about BH caps, which exist to kill Nomads and survive Corsairs/Order.

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[Bad.Wolf]

if you get rid of the BHG then you are erasing part of the game(freelancer). and just cus BH has more caps, so if getting rid of one factions capital ships why does it make it fair for other factions like corsairs, OCs and on, keep there capships and making a disadvantage? why does everyone whine about it? get over it, its a game.

[Athenian]

Carlos' main points:

The RP of the existence of such ships is dubious at best.

The idea that there might be some elite and well organised association wihtin the Guild appeals to me. Heck, they might even manage to build a small fleet. However I think the principal problem lies in the fact that this elite and well organised association is the worst kept secret in all Sirius, seems to have built more capital ships than all the other houses combined and has allowed a large number of mental defectives into its ranks.

The use of such ships, in RP, should never be profitable for an organisation who's sole purpose is to score kills in an economical manner so as to make profit.

Agreed. In my opinion, the cost of the fuel alone would hardly merit moving even a few hundred metres to kill anything. BUT killing Nomads and gathering their technology is lucrative enough to justify some caps.

The BHG lifestyle and ship-set attract the wrong sort of player.

The BHG is primarily a faction thats sole reason for existence is to catch and kill criminals. So the characters it attracts are going to be scum. This is where the distinction between player and character seems to become less distinct. A cap and a BHG ID makes you effectively an army of one, a self-sufficient nation. - you can go anywhere, do anything, not care about others on the server. Rules, (proposed) ID changes, admin sanctions, player interactions, all these can help to curb some excesses. But if anyone has any idea for a structural adjustment to Discovery that might solve this ongoing problem, post away...

It may be impossible to use BHG capitals without voluntarily, or involuntarily screwing up other people's RP and PVP experience.

Can't say. Haven't tried it yet. Note I said yet. Having never flown one, I can't say for certain, so I won't comment. But a damn good point - it may simply be unavoidable for many players. What makes it possible for some to do this and not others?

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Kambei]

Carlos' main points:
The idea that there might be some elite and well organised association wihtin the Guild appeals to me. Heck, they might even manage to build a small fleet. However I think the principal problem lies in the fact that this elite and well organised association is the worst kept secret in all Sirius, seems to have built more capital ships than all the other houses combined and has allowed a large number of mental defectives into its ranks.

Ahahaha made me laugh:laugh:

In my opinion is whole concept of bountyhunters on disco wrong. They shouldnt be strictly lawful in my opinion. In houses yes because it is politic but why to be lawful in edge worlds? There is no law, dead man didnt talk and credits are silent too. If there arent any house-conected witness, there isnt logical reason why not accept job for example from outcast. (yea yea we have mercs but they are wrong too and do totaly diferent things they should do).

And capships? It was mistake to add them into gamme unrestricted by RP proposal and admin aprovation - for all, not only for BHGs.

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[Har3]

"why does everyone whine about it? get over it, its a game."

Totaly agree. And whats bothers me the most "Ahhh those bounty hunters!" if someone is rule breaker he should be punished, don't say it is a fault of whole fraction.

[Baltar]

If a pirate attacks transports in a gunboat what is the problem with a BH attacking said pirate in a Battle Cruiser?

The problem is that a pirate taking on a liner in a single gunboat is bit more dangerous. Pirates are limited to gunboats for balance reasons. A Battle Cruiser cuts through a gunboat like a hot knife through butter. At least the transport has a fighting chance.

Not to mention that a Battle Cruiser is a war ship. Its purpose is war.

[Markus_Janus]

Hmm well I do not see a Gunboat verse Train as a fair fight.
But anyway I think that as long as their enemies bring capships they should be able to use capships to hunt them.
I know everyone seems to think that it is out of RP for them to use them but I think there are only 5 factions that should use them, the 4 navies and the nomads.
But of course there is a little thing called player balance isn't there.
The way I see it the rule about making them need forum posted bounties was enough.
Surely the pirate factions should have the same rules applied to them, why am I able to take my Outcast Destroyer out of Omicron Alpha and Beta?
Why are the corsair cruisers allowed out of Gamma?
Surely they are needed there as much as the BH's need theirs to fight the Order.
The hatred of bounty hunters has been taken too far.
Since the forum bounty rule, the only OoRP behavior regarding hunters I have seen has been from the pirates around them.
Not saying it is all pirates, far from it but it remains that most of the previous BH's have gone Zoner and other factions now.
I think it is time to leave the hunters alone and turn the pitchforks on someone else.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Kambei]

The way I see it the rule about making them need forum posted bounties was enough.

No it is not enough because there was and still are bounties like "kill all pirates in sigma, free for all". Good to see houses officials post bountiies with restrictions like "only for fighters" but indies and especialy powertraders posting their general bounties on all for everybody fu** whole idea.

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[Blodo]

Well, since we are on the topic of ridiculous capships: who in the hell ever got the idea of giving the Zoners any capital ships? Zoners are by far the most disorganised faction in all of Sirius, in fact - they aren't even a faction! The Zoners are a label for people who choose to live outside the houses making their living as border world merchants and innkeepers. Capital ship fleet? Completely ridiculous.

[Baltar]

Hmm well I do not see a Gunboat verse Train as a fair fight.
But anyway I think that as long as their enemies bring capships they should be able to use capships to hunt them.
I know everyone seems to think that it is out of RP for them to use them but I think there are only 5 factions that should use them, the 4 navies and the nomads.
But of course there is a little thing called player balance isn't there.
The way I see it the rule about making them need forum posted bounties was enough.
Surely the pirate factions should have the same rules applied to them, why am I able to take my Outcast Destroyer out of Omicron Alpha and Beta?
Why are the corsair cruisers allowed out of Gamma?
Surely they are needed there as much as the BH's need theirs to fight the Order.
The hatred of bounty hunters has been taken too far.
Since the forum bounty rule, the only OoRP behavior regarding hunters I have seen has been from the pirates around them.
Not saying it is all pirates, far from it but it remains that most of the previous BH's have gone Zoner and other factions now.
I think it is time to leave the hunters alone and turn the pitchforks on someone else.

There's a big difference between Gunboat vs Train and Battle Cruiser vs Gunboat. Trains have enough bats/bots to survive long enough to dock somewhere. Gunboats use up 100% of their bats when their shields are dropped ... and a Battle Cruiser takes 2 or 3 direct shots on a gunboat to destroy the hull. Train takes far more damage before its destroyed.

Not to mention that if a trader pays the required fee he gets to fly off alive ... don't get the same for us pirates. We get death with no bribe to get out.

And a forum post for a bounty on a "specifically identified" pirate works. But "generic" bounties completely avoid the need for a bounty hunter to bother checking the forum. So ... if you wanna make this point valid ... get rid of the generic bounties and I'd agree with you on that point.

Corsairs have more ZoI than just Gamma. Omegas are filled with Corsair ... the Corsair are at war with Red Hessians for ownership of the Omegas. They also have hostilities with Outcast and are allied with Order ... so they are not confined to Gamma.

BHG caps are supposed to be fighting Order ... not hunting bounties.

I'd agree to leave BHG alone if the BHG would hunt us pirates more reasonably. But accepting "generic" bounties and using overclassed vessels don't help your case. My pirate, Black.Pearl, does a bit of trading on the side. He moves water, food and medicine to those the house systems oppress. He hasn't pirated anyone in over 3 months. So hunting me without a specific bounty for something I personally have done pisses me off.