' Wrote:They shoot more than Synth Foods, and will likely be opposed to foreign influence in a similar manner to the Xenos and Farmer's Alliance. It only makes sense.
Yeah once again, you're saying 'likely' and 'it only makes sense,' but when you said it first, you said it as fact. If you can't back it up, don't state your opinions as fact. The LWB's biggest enemy besides Synth is ALG, a Rheinland corp.
' Wrote:LWB are engaging in protectionist economics and terrorism. Targetting foreigners would only go hand-in-hand with this.
To everyone (the Order excepted): Your faction are not the good guys. We're all bad. That's the point.
Protectionist economics? We're trying to get out planet back, not kick out all foreigners. I think you've looked a little too deeply into the AFA. :P
And of course we aren't the good guys, I'm always a bad guy. From our character's point of view, however, we are good guys, and we hide our flaws. OoRP, though, everyone always does have a drawback, whether it is immediately realized or not.
' Wrote:But why does this make them want to ally with Farmers, for instance?
Because of the ingame RP that has occurred? I think that had a lot to do with it, though, Zelot might be better answer this question, to be honest.
' Wrote:Also, LWB are out-of-work farmers tat want their industry back. The Gaians didn't lose their jobs. They were a part of the educated, wealthy elite, that decided to go terrorist for their beliefs. Big difference. Compare them to Bundschuh instead.
Well, they are more like the Bundschuh, you're right, however, if you do think about it, both of our niches are similar, but, we're kind of derailing at this point...
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
I don't think the LWB could care at all about the nationality of a person. They just want Planet Stuttgart back. Sure, they might want some governmental changes the Bundschuh are advocating, but if they were able to kick out Synth and allow independent farmers again, like they had for oh so long, they would be perfectly happy overall (with the unhappy ones going and joining other movements).
As to why the Gaians don't like terraforming lifeless rocks? That's pretty obvious, at least to me. They like the way things were created by Nature. Terraforming them to be nicer is changing the way Nature created them. On a small scale, things are somewhat acceptable, but terraforming is on a HUGE scale. On that note, I think the Gaians would dislike the whole Dyson Sphere approach in that one system, too. It's altering it from its natural state.
That's why I think they'd like some of the groups they do, too. (See my big chart for specifics.) The FA dislike Synth, who has a history of messing up ecosystems. Sure farming is bad, but if it's on an individual level, that's far better than on a large-scale corporate level. Which is why I think they'd dislike Samura and Kishiro (and get along with the LWB, if they ever met).
' Wrote:Hearts and minds aren't won by people that kill for something other than people, I'm afraid. Murdering people (and murder is what it is) so that a lifeless rock can decide its own future will only receive public outrage.
People are stupid herd animals by nature, infinitely predictable, & easily distracted by propaganda. Like it or not, the Green Front provides propaganda to the people. Some buy into it, some don't, but the biggest victory that the GF has achieved is forcing an amount of tolerance within the Bret Gov't itself because of fearful polititians that don't wan't to rock the boat with their Cambridge constituency.
Quote:Besides, turning the moon into a Gaia would be awesome. We've already screwed the food chain, after all.
& this pov is one reason why you have never really understood what the Gaians are about.
' Wrote:I say its a non sense alliance. Gaians to me are the bretonian Xenos. No allies.
There is no such thing as Bretonian Xenos. Labeling them as such is just lazy.
' Wrote:Marburg, I am curious, what's your two cents on the Gaians being portrayed as having jumped into bed with the Kusari in regards to the war?
I mean, every time I fly through Leeds these days there's some people there ranting about how the Gaians just can't wait for the Emperor to be marching through and people who spout 'chap' and 'tally ho' and 'pip pip' being a thing of the past.
It seems to, as Blunt obliquely pointed out, something that would put the greenfront in a bit of disfavor with the general populace. Giving the nod to a bunch of folks who reckon that maybe we could clean up house a bit and do a little shooting to make it happen is one thing when you're choking on smog in 'ol Leeds. It's another thing when they're passing around the support cup whilst the KNF is fighting a shooting war above your heads and those environmentalist buggers are shooting up the hypothetical good guys in favor of the invading masses.
It's been said multiple times on multiple days: The reason why Gaians, Hogs & AFA are so friendly is based on over a year of RP...RP that most of the detractors never bother to read. I'll say it again (& people will ignore it again) but our alliance with our northern neighbors is nothing more complicated than "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
The Gaians are not nationalistic. As a faction, they simply consider Kusari taking Bretonia the lesser of 2 evils & given the track record of how both govts treat their environment, Kusari is the lesser evil.
From very early on, NLH, AFA & BDS have always said that if Kusari ever wins the war, we will all adapt & change our relations accordingly. (& before a month from now I'll bet it will need to be said again.)
' Wrote:Was more of an observation than anything else, as the Gaians seem to be hard chargers over leaving everything in a natural state.
Of course if they're cool with their buddies nuking a planet's biosphere into oblivion they're probably cool with some crops employing some jumbled DNA in order to dominate the growing scene.
From day one, my character has always hated the Sairs, & I brought that hate with me when Rdy handed over the NLH to me. Ask any other NLH & they will confirm that my dislike of the Sairs goes past fanatical, & the possibility of going hostile with them would be like a dream come true.
' Wrote:As for the Gaians-Synthfoods thing, the way I see it, they would totally hate synth foods, but they'd hate all other farming too.
I have no clue why the Gaians would hate faming...industrial farming, sure but how could any society ever have gotten past the nomadic stage of development without agriculture? Simple crop rotation techniques replenish sapped nutrients from the soil & farming (in my mind) is uber Gaiany to the root.
' Wrote:People are stupid herd animals by nature, infinitely predictable, & easily distracted by propaganda. Like it or not, the Green Front provides propaganda to the people. Some buy into it, some don't, but the biggest victory that the GF has achieved is forcing an amount of tolerance within the Bret Gov't itself because of fearful polititians that don't wan't to rock the boat with their Cambridge constituency.
I have trouble buying this. In real life, I would have to use the Sinn Fein/IRA links as an example, Sinn Fein have, in the past, had links to the IRA. They cut links to them due to being in favour of due political process.
When the Gaians are terrorists who commit murder to keep lifeless rocks lifeless, they aren't going to get support.
Now, the Green Front might get support, like Greenpeace do in real life, but that doesn't mean that the people will support the Gaians. In fact, the people would probably hate the Gaians, since they're treasonous, murdering terrorists. Even those that agree with their goals would likely dislike them for making them look bad.
For instance, would Greenpeace activists support murder in the name of the environment? I doubt it. Would they support treason? I doubt that too.
Hell, in real life, the Earth Liberation Front don't get support from Greenpeace, despite not killing anyone, only doing property damage. They don't have mass support. Those with similar goals dislike them. Add to the fact that the Gaians rob and kill people like any other criminal and you lose lots of support.
Also, you go on about in-game RP altering the diplomacy and such (and I really think the Gaians should be shooting up Samura Heavy Industry). I've seen little in-game RP convincing me that the Gaians are anything but terrorists and murderers with no public support. I have, however, seen Bretonian officials letting the people know that they're criminals of the worst sort. I've also seen propaganda messages which seem like threats. The sort of thing that will make the people act like cornered badgers instead of happy sheep.
Humans aren't herd animals, anyway... they're pack animals, like wolves, jackals and the like.:D
' Wrote:But we also have Samura brand happyfuntime fish product as well. Isnt that enough?
*eats another chopstick full of happy funtime rice product, smiles up at the Hogosha surrounding him*
MMPH! Ismp good!
*grins the grin of the insanely terrified*
As to Marburg stuff, works for me. Was really just curious. Though I think that there are still some holes in the greenfront movement with the whole war dynamic.
Edit: DL would like to state that he is not a detractor, just a curious bystander.
' Wrote:I have no clue why the Gaians would hate faming...industrial farming, sure but how could any society ever have gotten past the nomadic stage of development without agriculture? Simple crop rotation techniques replenish sapped nutrients from the soil & farming (in my mind) is uber Gaiany to the root.
Well I was going off the idea that gaians just want to leave things how they are naturally, regardless of good or bad (e.g. dead moon stays dead moon). Agriculture doesn't do this at all. Completely changes everything - landscape, local flora and fauna, soil content. The 'artisan' methods of the AFA are actually less efficient and therefore more damaging for what they produce. (going off RL for this, stuttgart's change indicates that industrial farming can be pretty bad, but LA seems to have coped). I only know the history of my country, but small scale, traditional farming turned my completely wooded/heather/moss covered island in to an almost entirely denuded island with dry-stone-wall enclosed field after dry-stone-wall enclosed field. It didn't mess up global warming or destroy the soil, yeah, but that is a pretty mathematical, dead way to look at it. It completely and irreversibly changed the environment, which is what I thought gaians were against.
If traditional farming is Gaiany, why don't they want bretonians to start living on gaia and start farming? Why do you want it left alone?
Also still, I'm not denying that the gaians and AFA have a lot of forum RP backing up their alliance, but can you really suggest that they remain at all popular? Either the populace would hate them and the green front would die, or the green front would cut all ties with the gaians.
what im wondering is how the orders actions will mess this up.its simple, both the order and theAFA are corsair allies.The order tresspases on nagano, and refuses to stop.We get Kos order, against the order.Something is going to happen.