When the Phantoms said "Hey 5-1 odds are normal for us, we'd like to be able to have guns that can allow us some equality" we were told to go to hell. Now here's the Keepers with that bonus telling us to go to hell, despite using the same reasoning.
Frankly I don't care two hoots about the Keepers having somewhat better equipment, but I do care that they get it for the same rreason the Phantoms were denied it. That smells bad to me.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
' Wrote:Right, so, you lose the war, in an infant state, get majorly damaged, in said infant state, then 17 years later, you're a big nasty terrifying monster again. Beyond ignoring the fact that humans would be growing too, and from a much, much larger base, the common wisdom from humans will still be, no matter how nasty the nomads are, "Hey, we beat them already"
In the last 17 years since the war, humans have entered the most expansive period in all of Sirius history, I assert. Nomads may be expanding, and back to where they are..but you know what they've built? A couple of cities, a huge rock complex, a lair or two(Xerna was already there).
What have humans expanded into? I couldn't even begin to count. But I'll name some things.
A research facility. An orbital colony larger than the ring. Two shipyards, another shipyard....Newcastle. Canadian systems. Ellesmere. 100.
Honestly, the development and expansion to 100 alone more than competes with nomad growth.
EDIT:
Ok, yes, deus ex machina. Do we want to pull that from the canon? We could. But, if we don't remove that, and hence change...everything...the fact remains that they left their heart out where Trent could stab it. Stab it he did. That would hurt.
So now the one with the most buildings and planets is the most powerfull badass out there?
Nomads grow quite rapidly if they have the right powersource. Again, I'll point to the Lore, due to the fact the sun in Iota didn't have enough juice, they went and sucked Xerna dry. I.E We take Nomads, add a powersource. What do you get? Biger, badder Nomads. It's that simple.
I don't agree with the argument that being overwhelmed by numbers gives someone the rights to obtain overwhelming weapons as of stats for compensation. You should learn to live with it if you have chosen to be a part of a specific faction that barely recruits people due to the high standarts and expectations of RP'ing capability and tendency that is set by you, which I don't have a problem with.
If every overwhelmed faction was to start lobbying for advaned guns and dwell it in the argument of being overwhelmed by numbers, we wouldn't have a very stable understanding of things as we have been having upto date.
About NPCs with SW loadout, I believe that they should be restricted within the guard systems. I have been personally defending the fact that Nomad NPCs should pose slightly worse problems for people but I don't remember ever that I agreed with letting a restricted club obtain limitless rights to spread a superior set of NPCs throughout the entire Sirius. And even if the MR you are speaking of has inferior stats once compared with the MR humans use, having the ability of mounting such a gun on a LF is an unmatchable superiority, we all know that.
We all know that the Nomads have achieved to implement and establish invaluable assets so far but frankly, seeing this as an excuse for endangering the overall harmony is not something I would appreciate.
' Wrote:When the Phantoms said "Hey 5-1 odds are normal for us, we'd like to be able to have guns that can allow us some equality" we were told to go to hell. Now here's the Keepers with that bonus telling us to go to hell, despite using the same reasoning.
Frankly I don't care two hoots about the Keepers having somewhat better equipment, but I do care that they get it for the same rreason the Phantoms were denied it. That smells bad to me.
No Del, I think you misunderstood. I don't think any keeper has said that the Phantoms can go to hell at any point. Infact my point has been that special factions like the Phantoms and Keepers should have better gear.
I also haven't used the "we're outnumbered" agruement. It's a weak arguement and one I'm not gunna use, but the RP background of being damned scary is a solid one.
Both the Phantoms and Keepers are damned scary, and as such should be given their damned scary bonus in game.
(Personally, I find the Phantoms guns damned scary, and rightly so, they should be.)
' Wrote:Having the ability of mounting such a gun on a LF is an unmatchable superiority, we all know that.
The Loki. The Public Nomad LF. Both are non-keeper ships. Both have the ability to fire a mini.
' Wrote:So now the one with the most buildings and planets is the most powerfull badass out there?
Nomads grow quite rapidly if they have the right powersource. Again, I'll point to the Lore, due to the fact the sun in Iota didn't have enough juice, they went and sucked Xerna dry. I.E We take Nomads, add a powersource. What do you get? Biger, badder Nomads. It's that simple.
Right. So, lets then ignore the developments that humans have done, which makes them easily capable of building more than twice (four times as much, possibly), because the Nomads had a nice, powerful sun?
I did read your lore. There are bits of it that aren't coherent with the rest of sirius, and I don't consider it canon, as I've said.
Well I just repeat my previous post here. That's about the same post I had posted in the Phantoms' thread.
But with the Phantoms there's the whole thing of themselves making their own RP out of scratch, and being able to make it so that they have X power in RP.
Same as if any other faction for that matter had the self-made RP of being *insert RP* powerful.
Like say if the Colonials, or some other built from scratch in FL faction had something more powerful than the others in RP, they could all make a case as to why have a small percentage stronger equipment than the rest.
Now don't take this the wrong way please, I ain't trying to pull you down or anything, just saying that the power of the Nomads is from canon Freelancer RP.
I personally don't see the current state as them being too powerful.
You can't compare the Nomads and Phantoms in all cases, in my opinion.
Note: I can bet at least 5 people will take my post the wrong way. Oh well, bugger.
' Wrote:I don't agree with the argument that being overwhelmed by numbers gives someone the rights to obtain overwhelming weapons as of stats for compensation. You should learn to live with it if you have chosen to be a part of a specific faction that barely recruits people due to the high standarts and expectations of RP'ing capability and tendency that is set by you, which I don't have a problem with.
If every overwhelmed faction was to start lobbying for advaned guns and dwell it in the argument of being overwhelmed by numbers, we wouldn't have a very stable understanding of things as we have been having upto date.
@Kress and others mentioning this argument.
Noone said being outnumbered is the reason for having more powerful equipment. RP, and the Igiss accepted Nomad lore is.
I only mentioned the "outnumbered thing" as to prevent arguments of the type "Where's the balance of all weapons? We don't want to have people with more powerful ships than us, even if it does make sense".
And just to note to everyone, I am not in any Nomad faction, nor even have Nomad Trial chars. This is me saying what makes sense to me, in impartiality.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
@swift: Disco Nomads being super-strong doesn't come from Vanilla RP. If we went by that, we would have a few scattered bewildered Nomads roaming around. The story that made them oh so powerful was player-made.
' Wrote:@swift: Disco Nomads being super-strong doesn't come from Vanilla RP. If we went by that, we would have a few scattered bewildered Nomads roaming around. The story that made them oh so powerful was entirely player-made.
I'm not gonna say anything to the main topic yet.
*nods*
Didn't say it was purely vanilla.
Super-strong, oh so powerful, are in my opinion too big terms for the current ratio of power. And an advantage of around 5% in equipment and weapons has, I think, in-RP and game mechanics, has existed from .. ever. And that's even beside the point, cause:
I point to my statement of the Nomad lore that was posted and the fact that it was accepted. If I'm wrong, then okay.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
Wasn't suggesting that the Keepers were telling the Phantoms to go to hell, merely everyone in general.
Nomad Lore was written by the Keepers. no? I know others had some input, but only those interested in Nomads would have bothered to help. After all why bother helping in something you're not at all interested in. Ergo you wrote that to make as much sense for yourselves as possible. Now I'm not suggesting you deliberately overegged them to be more powerful than they should be, but I am suggesting that no matter what you wrote you were always going to put a good spin on it. Simply because you're human.
Phantom RP was written as it is with us not having massively superior tech because we were told we'd not get it even if we asked for it, it isn't limited by our RP it's limited by what we've been given. And note we've been given most of our stuff, including these horrendous Nomad NPC's in our own system. (Which makes life difficult for the poor penumbra, I can tell you.)
That said, Joe is kinda right, both Phantoms and Keepers are supposed to be pawns of uber scary races, both of whom should have access to uber scary stuff. Now I concur with the argument that making the stuff too overpowered kills the fun for everyone, but folks should be crapping themselves when they see either a Phantom or Keeper, and doing some serious self congratulation if and when they beat one.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
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