The adjectives I used may have been too strong, maybe not. Comparing with the state vanilla would suggest, it is fully justified. If taken in the context of Disco balance, they are just better than anyone else, but it probably wouldn't qualify for these adjectives.
' Wrote:Wasn't suggesting that the Keepers were telling the Phantoms to go to hell, merely everyone in general.
Nomad Lore was written by the Keepers. no? I know others had some input, but only those interested in Nomads would have bothered to help. After all why bother helping in something you're not at all interested in. Ergo you wrote that to make as much sense for yourselves as possible. Now I'm not suggesting you deliberately overegged them to be more powerful than they should be, but I am suggesting that no matter what you wrote you were always going to put a good spin on it. Simply because you're human.
Phantom RP was written as it is with us not having massively superior tech because we were told we'd not get it even if we asked for it, it isn't limited by our RP it's limited by what we've been given. And note we've been given most of our stuff, including these horrendous Nomad NPC's in our own system. (Which makes life difficult for the poor penumbra, I can tell you.)
That said, Joe is kinda right, both Phantoms and Keepers are supposed to be pawns of uber scary races, both of whom should have access to uber scary stuff. Now I concur with the argument that making the stuff too overpowered kills the fun for everyone, but folks should be crapping themselves when they see either a Phantom or Keeper, and doing some serious self congratulation if and when they beat one.
Half of what I meant was vanilla Nomad RP, half was about the player-made lore.
As for the general post by yourself, yeah I agree, just the majority, it seems, didn't agree when the discussion on Phantom equipment was being made.
That same majority was mostly people who didn't really know too much, but just didn't like the idea of not having the most uber weapons.
But I'm not denying that both sides of the discussion in that thread had some smart people and good arguments.
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<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
' Wrote:It does make quite the RP sence. I mean, the Nomads are a super duper Alien race created by an even more advanced alien race. One would think that makes them just that bit more strong, no?
Well, in a sense, no.
As it is stated in one of the sources you have mentioned in the posted Nomad Lore:
Quote:In the process the Nomads learned quite a bit about humanity and began to
understand how we had appropriated the knowledge that the Daam-K'Vosh had
intended for them. They also realized that our own civilization was technologically
more advanced than their own -- but much as humanity had taken the remnants of
the Daam-K'Vosh civilization and made it their own, so the Nomads decided that
they would take our civilization and rebuild it in their own image. We had already
unlocked secrets of the Daam-K'Vosh that it would have taken them millennia to
uncover.
But feel free to point out in the OFFICIAL lore or Sp where they mentioned that the nomads themselfes were more advanced in technology. Yes they were created by superior technology, however that doesn't mean that they have access to it.
As for the Nomad Lore that you created and coming up with it to defend your points. I found it a bit twisting the orginal lore and having ideas without proper explanation or evidence to base them on, and even going against what we have learnt from then SP.
Let the Nomads, who are meant to be scary scary aliens according to Freelancer, be able to do good amounts of damage when in small groups.
I personally see the Keepers as the 'elite' Nomads in a way. While I know there is no hierachy as such in Nomad society, the Keepers appear to have the greatest freedom across the species as a whole. Plus they are the player faction.
My theory is simple:
Do let the Keepers do a little bit more damage than normal human weapons let them (5% extra say, as these weapons are or so)
Do not let the Nomads do a little bit more damage than normal human weapons let them.
Aka, tone down the NPCs. Keep the player stuff the same.
' Wrote:Well, in a sense, no.
As it is stated in one of the sources you have mentioned in the posted Nomad Lore:
But feel free to point out in the OFFICIAL lore or Sp where they mentioned that the nomads themselfes were more advanced in technology. Yes they were created by superior technology, however that doesn't mean that they have access to it.
As for the Nomad Lore that you created and coming up with it to defend your points. I found it a bit twisting the orginal lore and having ideas without proper explanation or evidence to base them on, and even going against what we have learnt from then SP.
And I'd ask you to point me to proof from the original Freelancer that Nomads were indeed *not* more powerful than humanity.
Why would LSF ships get nomad tech on theirs if it wasn't vastly more developed?
Or why'd Rheinlanders be building those Nomad Battleships in that secret shipyard on that mission if they weren't more developed?
As far as I recall, the Rheinland battleship was the most powerful capital ship that is non-nomad that ever existed.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
Different tech can lead to advantages that isn't necessarily better because its more advanced. Case in point, different weapontech works better against specific sheildtech.
Proof that they weren't more powerful: Deus Ex Machina. Even while 'winning' the war, they left their heart out where Trent could hit it, and then didn't defend the object. This suggests they were rather thinly stretched.
Furthermore, the suggestion that nomads have been growing a lot (and I don't contest this) is made in a vacuum, with the suggestion that they've grown a lot, in relation to their competitors, the humans, which I contest. It seems very apparent to me that humans have spent the last two decades in a rather extreme industrial boom, producing new things for everyone, in vast quantities. At least space based industrial capacity has more than doubled, probably tripled, the population has grown.
I'm not willing to accept Nomad growth at such a rate that it moves from the post hypergate collapse low point, to past the industrial booming Sirius humans (which have grown a huge deal, from a rather larger base point) in the last 17 years. Such a growth rate would be...insane.
Well, if people are so in love with Freelancer canon, why don't they play on a non-modded server? You know, LPI using patriots, traders flying Rhinos and the Corsairs and Outcasts beating the crap out of everyone.
This is Discovery RP Freelancer, and it has its own canon and roleplay story. We balanced all the factions, and continued the storyline.
About the silly 'Why should we be scared by the nomads, we beat them' question. Remember what Jun'ko Zane said back in the Dyson Sphere? 'They're gone, but they're not beaten'. And guess what, we're 17 years into the future now, and the nomads slowly rebuilt theirs. And they had the better tech even if they were pulled back for a while, thanks to that hypergate.
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Mephistoles
I am a little afraid of poking my head in hear as it may get cut off but does anyone have any in game experience to suggest the nomad equipment is now overpowered beyond reason or is this all just conjecture?
' Wrote:That said, Joe is kinda right, both Phantoms and Keepers are supposed to be pawns of uber scary races, both of whom should have access to uber scary stuff. Now I concur with the argument that making the stuff too overpowered kills the fun for everyone, but folks should be crapping themselves when they see either a Phantom or Keeper, and doing some serious self congratulation if and when they beat one.
Believe me Phantoms have been much more scarier in the past without the uber tech you are speaking of. And they have done it with the great roleplay, the coordinated actions that backed the great roleplay and most importantly by rolemodel people those who devoted their time, their skills. And we all know that its not the armament which makes one superior but the piloting and coordination. There is nothing wrong for both Keepers and Phantoms to be on equal terms with every other faction as of the weaponry stats but there is something wrong if things start to be biased and yield to one's sole favor that I call the degeneration of the overall harmony and that is something you have already agreed with as I have made out from your reply.
And Swift, that argument of being overwhelmed is not created by me but personally have been used by some members of the Keepers, which is why I felt the need of not to agree with it.
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