In 0-49 we used to have a convoy of 1-2 miners and 1-2 Haulers.
Yes it was good profit but when you think about it, Mining should be more profitable in the long run, You are mining the Valuable commodities that the Traders shall be purchasing to sell to a new base for a different source of profit.
But thats not the way it works around here :/
[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternalâ Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)
Things seem a bit messed up with the logic at present, in my opinion. If the idea IS to mine and then haul, again, why not just haul? Most of the places were metals are mined, they are also sold cheaply.
As a solution, why not reduce the drops of minable fields to, say, 33%, but then increase the price it sells at the nearest station by 300% (and all the profits for sale). This would mean mining profits were the same, but the risk for trading would would much greater, right?
I still think it's more feasible to just tweak the mining field yields to a higher setting - it'll take more time in terms of balancing the yields, but at least you don't have the extra step of redoing the economy prices again..
I ve been thinking about the reduced drop rates and here's some math i did...
Bear in mind, i am referring to the Omega 49 mining field here.
Earlier, with the original drop rates, It used to take about 6 minutes for a miner to fill up a 5K transport, and for the transport to sell and return.
That came out to 10 trips in an hour, with 9 mil profit per run. After the hour, we split the 90 mil, and the NET Profit comes out to about 45 mil per person.
If the same thing is done solo, a miner can make at most 6 trips to and from gran canaria in an Hour. 5 trips is more likely. Each trip gets your a profit of more or less exactly 5 mil, bringing the profit to 25-30 mil per hour.
This encouraged mining in a group of 2, or multiples of 2.
Now, with the new decreased drop rate, a 5 k transport working with one miner can make at most 5 trips (takes roughly 12 minutes to fill up and return). Profit = 45 million. Profit per person = 22.5 million
If the miner chooses to go go solo, he can make 4 trips within the hour, making a profit of 20 million. This does not encourage group work !
Additionally, this is nowhere near the money you can make if you trade. 5 K transports can easily make 40-50 mil per hour trading. Mining should be able to rival that ! (atleast if you work in groups of miner+hauler)
And it should not be far behind should the miner go alone. The server is not full all the time. It is not always possible to find people to haul for you everytime you chose to mine.
To add to that, if you have a hauler with you, you have absolutely no time to stop and talk. Now i like to do that stuff ! I like to chit chat with other miners, and zoners in that system.
I even supplied niobium to a zoner colony called auxium for a change. (fun day)
Mining needs to return more. Please, its a humble request.
I ve been trading all my time here on disco, and wanted to do something else for a change.
I am not the expert here, so i cant calculate what it was and should be, but the way mining was going on in omega 49, it was fun.
**Since, as Cannon said, mining yields can be adjusted on the server ON THE FLY, without any other actions being necessary, how about that the Admins may actually be putting some REAL RP into mining for you?
In other words - just as in real life where the gold/silver/diamond mines lasted for a while until the vein ran dry, maybe - just MAYBE - that's what is being done here?
(Especially when Cannon mentioned something about gold fields, too?)
Unlike traders - where you just get to fly from point A to point B to point C and make a certain amount of money, mining is SUPPOSED to be both a hazardous and risky proposition, with you never knowing just when and where the field is going to be, or when claim-jumpers are going to show up.
Okay, so one field was a bit off base and has been nerfed back. Fine - deal wth it, and now DISCOVER another field that's just as nice.
Quoting Dusty:
Quote:So only with the proper ship, gun, tag and ID will you get the full bonus.
1) The Mining Ship provides an 80% yield bonus.
1.5) The ALG mover/CSV/Collector yield 20%.
2) The Mining Laser yields an additional 20%
3) The proper ID and TAG provide 15% each.
Numbers are subject to change.
The mining laser can be found on virtually any border world freeport. That is its most common location.
ID and Resource Bonus List:
ALG: Scrap Metal
BMM: Hydrocarbons, Beryllium, Gold and Niobium.
Corsairs: Artifacts
Cryer: Alien Organisms.
Daumann: Diamonds, Copper and Hydrocarbons
Deep Space Engineering: Silver and Copper.
Hessians: Diamonds
IMG: Gold, Beryllium, Niobium, Silver and Cobalt
Junkers: Scrap Metal
Kruger: Diamonds, Silver and Cobalt
Mollies: Gold
Outcasts: Alien Organisms.
Xenos: Silver and Copper.
Miner ID/No IFF: Alien Organisms and Scrap Metal.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
' Wrote:EDIT: Another thing I've noticed: you need to have exactly the right ID/IFF for a particular commodity to get the mining bonus. The same thing applies to mining lasers/mining ship - you've got to have both. Mining lasers have no effect if they are in another ship (except the some junker ships like the csv).
Am I one of the only miners that actualy read what was written on mining ?
Thats exactly how it is SUPPOSED to work. There is no universal 'i R t3h m|n3R' ID, each faction that mines, mines differnt items better than others.
Mining lasers have a small % bonus per drop, mining ship has the BIGGEST bonus of em all (personaly, I say lower the bonus a lot, and base it more on ID so people RP their ID not just wandering for quick cash). ID has about the same effect as the lasers, maybe a tad more, cant recall.
The funny thing was the number of generic miner IDs in O49 crying 'how do you get moar than me', or better yet never even noticed how those properly IDd were doing better.
' Wrote:I thought the aim was to have the transports constantly flying, or close to it.. All the part of creating maximum efficiency.
I got my o49 estimated from when I was with Kuro (in a mining ship) in my Heavy tanker. Both of us had IMG ID and IFF and after about 45mins (I doubt it was an hour..) we did about seven loads before quitting and coming in together (he was full from the leftovers I couldn't pick up each run by then). We earnt a little over 63mil, which we split to 30mil each and 3mil for the faction guildfunds. extrapolating that and I got 40mil per person if we went the whole hour (and if we weren't going gung-ho about it). I boggle as to how you earnt 120mil an hour Virus - I was speed docking, tractoring short of the mined "cloud", everything I could think to speed myself up.. I'm suggestion on nerfing the cloud 85-90% of what it was was so that the transporter can actually have a rest, perhaps even pewing a couple rocks himself before having to go again.
EDIT: Hm bit slow.. but now seeing that a second person is saying they can get that sort of amount maybe I am thinking off here. I'll retest it sometime and see if I can reaffirm it though..
No way to re-test it, it's been nerfed. As for HOW to do it, the answer is quite simple. Work. the miner has to work VERY hard, and the hauler has to be perfectly efficent. I'll actualy tell HOW now that the field isnt worth mining anymore (read: mining requires more work than trading, and isnt worth it when trading is so much more profatable).
Heres how.
1- Have a WP in the cloud, set it a fewK farther than you WILL travel so it never goes away.
2- Launch
3- Targed WP, F2,
4- Turret mode and target the moor
5- Arrive @ mining zone, tractor in and fill up (or mine and fill if a miner going alone)
6- When full, F2 and go to the moor
7- ????
8- PROFIT
Quote:The average trading profits should be around 30-35 millions or so per hour, if we need to make a comparison with mining. While the mining is still a safer way to generate cash, it is also more tiresome to use your mining laser and mine the bloody raw materials. I'm in favour of increasing the mining profits a little bit more. We have never had a significant amount of miners ever, have we?
And with nerfs like these, we never will. Mining will become something specific to a few RP factions only, and noobs that read how .85 has 'OMG BONUS TO MINING, I WILL BE TEH MINAR!!!'
TBH I think reducing the sell price, or drop rate, so that you make about 80% (solo mining) as what you did before per hour would be the MOST that should be done.
But the way it is now I am seriously considering making a return to power trading (prehaps I'll just get a zoner dessie and trade in that, as I recall its got a decent cargo hold ........ ) becasue I'm being punished for RPing mining properly because I dare make more than the power traders.
' Wrote:EDIT: Another thing I've noticed: you need to have exactly the right ID/IFF for a particular commodity to get the mining bonus. The same thing applies to mining lasers/mining ship - you've got to have both. Mining lasers have no effect if they are in another ship (except the some junker ships like the csv).
Am I one of the only miners that actualy read what was written on mining ?
Thats exactly how it is SUPPOSED to work. There is no universal 'i R t3h m|n3R' ID, each faction that mines, mines differnt items better than others.
Mining lasers have a small % bonus per drop, mining ship has the BIGGEST bonus of em all (personaly, I say lower the bonus a lot, and base it more on ID so people RP their ID not just wandering for quick cash). ID has about the same effect as the lasers, maybe a tad more, cant recall.
The funny thing was the number of generic miner IDs in O49 crying 'how do you get moar than me', or better yet never even noticed how those properly IDd were doing better.
' Wrote:I thought the aim was to have the transports constantly flying, or close to it.. All the part of creating maximum efficiency.
I got my o49 estimated from when I was with Kuro (in a mining ship) in my Heavy tanker. Both of us had IMG ID and IFF and after about 45mins (I doubt it was an hour..) we did about seven loads before quitting and coming in together (he was full from the leftovers I couldn't pick up each run by then). We earnt a little over 63mil, which we split to 30mil each and 3mil for the faction guildfunds. extrapolating that and I got 40mil per person if we went the whole hour (and if we weren't going gung-ho about it). I boggle as to how you earnt 120mil an hour Virus - I was speed docking, tractoring short of the mined "cloud", everything I could think to speed myself up.. I'm suggestion on nerfing the cloud 85-90% of what it was was so that the transporter can actually have a rest, perhaps even pewing a couple rocks himself before having to go again.
EDIT: Hm bit slow.. but now seeing that a second person is saying they can get that sort of amount maybe I am thinking off here. I'll retest it sometime and see if I can reaffirm it though..
No way to re-test it, it's been nerfed. As for HOW to do it, the answer is quite simple. Work. the miner has to work VERY hard, and the hauler has to be perfectly efficent. I'll actualy tell HOW now that the field isnt worth mining anymore (read: mining requires more work than trading, and isnt worth it when trading is so much more profatable).
Heres how.
1- Have a WP in the cloud, set it a fewK farther than you WILL travel so it never goes away.
2- Launch
3- Targed WP, F2,
4- Turret mode and target the moor
5- Arrive @ mining zone, tractor in and fill up (or mine and fill if a miner going alone)
6- When full, F2 and go to the moor
7- ????
8- PROFIT
Quote:The average trading profits should be around 30-35 millions or so per hour, if we need to make a comparison with mining. While the mining is still a safer way to generate cash, it is also more tiresome to use your mining laser and mine the bloody raw materials. I'm in favour of increasing the mining profits a little bit more. We have never had a significant amount of miners ever, have we?
And with nerfs like these, we never will. Mining will become something specific to a few RP factions only, and noobs that read how .85 has 'OMG BONUS TO MINING, I WILL BE TEH MINAR!!!'
TBH I think reducing the sell price, or drop rate, so that you make about 80% (solo mining) as what you did before per hour would be the MOST that should be done.
But the way it is now I am seriously considering making a return to power trading (prehaps I'll just get a zoner dessie and trade in that, as I recall its got a decent cargo hold ........ ) becasue I'm being punished for RPing mining properly because I dare make more than the power traders.
Basically, if you make mining bring in about 15 mil an hour, people just aren't going to do it. There's no benefit. I can make twice that in a p train doing slacker smuggling, mostly being afk and talking on group, spending 3 minutes looking at a jumphole because I went downstairs or whatever. It just seems like a waste of all the effort you've put in.
And you can't claim that they should be doing it 'for RP'. No one in england mines anymore. That doesn't mean all the citizens of england are bad RPers, it just means that real people don't work like that.
And yeah, considering Bornholm is broken, how come the average number of people mining that field is somewhere between zero and one? I think getting rid of Bornholm's viability would be a pretty silly idea for the people trying to promote mining. I agree with Rudo - rather than treat bornholm as broken, treat it as fine, and all the other no-profit fields as broken.
**Since, as Cannon said, mining yields can be adjusted on the server ON THE FLY, without any other actions being necessary, how about that the Admins may actually be putting some REAL RP into mining for you?
Yes, I did get Cannon's wink wink nudge nudge in his post, and while creating events such is all nice and good, I think making sure the yeilds on all mining feilds are alright/equal/reasonably profitable under normal conditions should take priority. I'd rather have no events for a while (like, until after beta's over) with all the feilds equally profitable rather than having a rush on one particular field, with all the others hodgepodgedly ok, too nerfed, too buffed, and worthless due to no close salepoints. The beta's aim was to fix things up quickly as possible, or at least that's what I thought it was..
I just asked the IMG folks what they thought should be done, and the answer was a resounding "balance the fields so they're all equal first". Places where they particularly noted are in Rheinland - there are no Kruger and very few Daumann miners around there, and their feilds should be looked into first to help those groups out.
Some background: Sirius was basically a diamond in the rough. When citizens came to Sirius they had nothing but their ships. To me the role of mining has been underplayed, and the unequivocal importance of the industry has been blatantly ignored. Mining is needed to provide everything in Sirius, from ships to buildings.
So instead of making a dynamic economy, since that would nerf mining even further, because you change hauling distances, why not lead with what we had.
Sure, 49 may have been a mistake, but what if it was a good one? For once it was nice to see other people mining, and despite common belief, we actually RP'd more than power mined. Earnings were more in the 25m's for me. And to be honest, it established the best teamwork I've ever seen on the server concerning mining and transports.
So, what I'm proposing is reinstate the field to it's old glory, and expand upon the idea. Throw in more fields of the same value placed in similar scenario's. That way people will spread out, and actually use the mining ship.
It's not abuse worthy either because, after mining for an hour(s) your eyes bleed. I mean, hell, I liked to trade during my mining spree. I actually enjoyed the inconsistency, switching back and forth between the two.
I don't see what's so wrong with mining for decent money. I mean we're still in beta so we should try it out at least.
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