LOCK REQUEST

[Malexa]

The paralyzer will get lost for bombers.
Maybe its no big deal, but I love to use it with debs against Caps.

On a sidenote, Bombers with missiles are just fine, just use your CD if you have one. If not, dont move near him or joust.

Stay on distance, and just eat the Debs. If you get close the missiles will hit you, before you can reach the CM or CD button.

Same goes for the SNAC/Razor. Dont make direct jousts. Circle around and be patient. If you joust and get shot down by a SNAC, dont blame the bomber. Blame your tactic against it.

And missiles are verry good at jousts, but cant hit if you turn early, or make some crazy slide moves.
During these manuvers your guns will hit and slowly drain the bomber.
Patience.

Thats what I do against them. Sure youll get shot down by a SNAC here and then, but Ive also got a lot of lucky hits with it, or just because the enemy made a stupid mistake due to haste.

Malexa

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[<span style="color:#FFCC00">The Mandalore's Office</span>]

[tansytansey]

I think the gun slots on the bombers should be reduced, i actually have double missiles on my bombers so i don't make this suggestion lightly. Gun holds should be decreased from 4 to 2, or from 5 to 3 for the BH bomber. I recently bought Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X and it's a brilliant game. On missions where you have to defend bombers they have no guns at all and if we leave them they are screwed. It shouldn't be this drastic, but it should be close to it.

Bombers need their four forward guns just as much as any other ship. My bomber uses a SNAC/TCD combination so when I fight other bombers I have to shoot down their shield with my guns before I can fire my SNAC at them. Two guns are practically useless, especially if they're 8.33s like Sammaels or Vengeances.

Instead of gun only, what about just switching them to Class 5 Turrets? They're almost all the same as their faction's Class 9 guns, so in that respect it wouldn't decrease their fire power much. They would just be missile- and codeless. Or leave some gun slots for the heavier, slow turning bombers to make up for the slow turning part, thus making missiles less useful for them, yes?

Genius. Absolute genius.

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes &quot;Nighthawk&quot; Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[JIVA]

turrets are different hardpoint than guns/missiles.

changing all bombers to turrets will require to re-hardpoint them all, ... quite some work.. .

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the [JIVA] group

[tansytansey]

Oh yeah... forgot about that. It's still a brilliant idea, even if it isn't feasible. Is it possible to make a new class of gun, then? Say, class 11?

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes &quot;Nighthawk&quot; Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Jihadjoe]

I have a few issues with missiles...

They are the following...

Cannonball - Easier to hit with than any gun. Does a metric poo-load of damage. Fire and forget weaponary, can be spammed in group fights and you'll doubtless land enough shots for it to make a difference.

Sidewinders- Worse on the 'fire and forget' front. The tracking is insane. You can do an awful lot to avoid them, but if you have someone spamming them at your rear end in a fight there isn't much you can do than turn your CM's on and pray.

None of these are nearly so much of a hassle in 1 vs 1 as they are in a group fight. Sure they may be highly effective against nubs in 1 on 1 combat, but they really come into their own when you're chasing someone around.

I just think a tracking or turn nerf would be ideal on missiles generally.

As things stand, having a pair of missiles in a group fight (remember dual CB nearly instas any fighter) is like having an "I win" button in a group fight if you're chasing someone. I have learnt this the hard way on a lot of occasions. While able to dodge missiles from one target, staying slive while having missiles spammed at you in a group fight is near impossible.

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[Muleo]

Operation 'Tough Love' is slowly working...

[VincentFerrex]

I concur with Joe.

Missiles have been the bane of my existence here, and most of my friends here know why I always use a TCD, as much as I love using MiniRazors and the like.

Missiles aren't meant to be main weapons, really. They're meant to be back-up weaps, but the way they're balanced now would make anyone use them an "uberpwnzor". There's no real skill anymore. Sure it takes good timing to make the most, but that's just about it. But when using only guns, which I do always, most of the skills I've learned, goes to "zomg evade dah missilez!" side.

Also, nothing's more embarrassing than being beaten and slowly eaten up by someone with all guns.:P

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<span style="font-family:Garamond"><span style="color:#FFFFFF">Saxophile's Signature Workshop

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[mjolnir]

Posting after loosing a fight because of something is generally not a good idea.
Most notably I would direct you to this: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...0652&st=100
thread page 11 and 12.. .something about sore loosers trying to limit others.

You are generally complaining that two of the fastest Order ships with 2 missiles each can barely defeat two nomad bombers who don't have any cd?

That kinda shows that missiles either are not that good... or the bombers are way too uber.
(we are talking about similar skill lever here, I'd personally say the Order pilots are better, but then it just makes the point stronger)

FYI I fought 3 (after a while 2) Hessians at once yesterday in my Phantom, didn't got hit by a single missile, they had 3 missiles together....

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Cannonball - Easier to hit with than any gun. Does a metric poo-load of damage. Fire and forget weaponary, can be spammed in group fights and you'll doubtless land enough shots for it to make a difference.

I find CBs about as easy to hit as Mini, and about as easy to hit as it always was in 1vs1, only problem is that CBs specifically hit a bit too much outside that now, due to the explosion range which will be corrected.

Sidewinders- Worse on the 'fire and forget' front. The tracking is insane. You can do an awful lot to avoid them, but if you have someone spamming them at your rear end in a fight there isn't much you can do than turn your CM's on and pray.

Yes they do hit ships that are running in one direction and ran out of CMs, same as firestalkers (which also ALWAYS did it - ask Skoko about his slipstream trip to gamma)... effectively negating the "running" tactic that can be used either for shieldrunning or for simply running away. I'd say people are just a bit use to the "I will dodge away from anything" tactic.

I just think a tracking or turn nerf would be ideal on missiles generally.

Tracking itself is exactly the same as always.

As things stand, having a pair of missiles in a group fight (remember dual CB nearly instas any fighter) is like having an "I win" button in a group fight if you're chasing someone.

Dual CB does 16626 damage... which actually doesn't instakill even half LFs... while mini + one gun salvo does insta-kill anything. Same with nomad torp + sn off course...


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I do have few ideas what can be changed about missiles in many ways, but then again, that would make me sore looser trying to limit others.


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@Saxophile

In the current situations I'd say this: missiles do make noobs better. But if 2 experienced pilots meet and each has either a missile or cd . The outcome in all fights I was in and have seen is still that the better pilot wins. If one experienced pilot meets noobs with missiles (and he has either cd or missile) he will also win easily.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[tansytansey]

Also, nothing's more embarrassing than being beaten and slowly eaten up by someone with all guns.:P

It's even funnier when its' a LF doing the beating, with two Vengances'

only problem is that CBs specifically hit a bit too much outside that now, due to the explosion range which will be corrected.

Good to know that's a bug and it's gonna be fixed.

effectively negating the "running" tactic that can be used either for shieldrunning or for simply running away. I'd say people are just a bit use to the "I will dodge away from anything" tactic.

I'll tell you now this is not true. I have a friend in the LPI who is probably the best damn Liberator pilot ever, he took on a Falcata who was using Paralyser/Sidewinder and he ran out of CDs/CMs and Bots/Bats and was at about 50% hull when the Falcata still had about 30 missiles of each left. He won that fight.
It is possible to dodge Sidewinders and Firestalkers, only it requires a tactic considered unfair by most of the community. The fight I mentioned lasted something like 3 hours.

So if it requires a tactic considered 'unfair' (aka shield camping (dodging erratically until your shields come back up)) to avoid, then doesn't logic dictate that they must also be 'unfair'? by the communities' standards, anyway. Statistically there is nothing wrong or imbalanced about missiles, since anyone can use them.
My only qualm with missiles now is bombers ability to mount them. Shouldn't be that easy for a bomber to kill a fighter, at least it takes some skill to shoot a SNAC. It also makes bombers far more effective at killing Light fighters, which should not be.

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Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes &quot;Nighthawk&quot; Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Derkylos]

Bombers need their four forward guns just as much as any other ship. My bomber uses a SNAC/TCD combination so when I fight other bombers I have to shoot down their shield with my guns before I can fire my SNAC at them. Two guns are practically useless, especially if they're 8.33s like Sammaels or Vengeances.

Really, a bomber should not be fighting another bomber...what's the point in VHFs if bombers can take out bombers?...

I like the idea of bomber-specific guns, tho. Like a sub-par Inferno...a hard-hitting, power-hungry shieldbuster with a speed around 300-400, ideal for knocking the tail end off of cruiser shields, but not effective for taking out fighters (unless the fighter decides to park in front of you...). Might put an end to all the "bombers r overpowered, nerf them to 1 hull, class 2 LF shields and give them battleship turning"...

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