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[Guest]

Using guns vs cap shields might be useless alone. But with heavy shield hitters, fighter guns reduce the amount of shield that is regenerated per shot. Allowing the shield to be taken down quicker.

The bomber I fly is unarmored and I still fly within 800 of a targetted battleship unless it has a full anti-fighter loadout, and I do quite fine until I get attacked by fighters (just as it should be...)

[MarvinCZ]

Gah, when I read Jinx talking about models for Shield hardpoints and the need for different shield hardpoints, I couldn't believe my eyes.

The shield is a mounted piece of equipment. It has a visible model. You can change that model. Simple as that. Because we have those shield types, like "Battleship Graviton Shield" that a LF can't mount, we don't have to worry about a LF having the same shield model (sized for a BS). And if it wasn't obvious: Without the need for new special hardpoints.

This issue aside, I would keep the SN as it is. I would also like to see the shields brought to the surface. And maybe some more torpedo types.

[Inconcessus]

Currently, the bomber is the closest thing to a "jack of all trades" ship that we have.

I think the SNAC itself should be left alone.

What we need is an overhaul of the philosophy of bomber design.

As has been stated before in umpteen threads on the subject, the bomber can kill just about anything - other bombers, VHFs, SHFs, transports, gunboats. A group of 3 or more can kill any big cap. LFs cause discomfort, but that can be solved by a missile launcher or two.

I agree.

In my opinion the best solution would be to tweak the bombers agility, so that they have a chance to evade capship weapons, not while SNACing them at the same time, though.

BUT

To have serious problems evading even VHfs, I think there are already a few bombers like this in the game. So instead of a smirk appearing on the bomber pilot's face: "just two SNACs and he is dust", some kind of *khm* distress(?) would be better, when hostile fighter's show up on the scanner.

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I like RP, where R stays for Role, not Retard.

[JakeSG]

It does NOT take that much skill to kill a fighter that jousts you in a bomber.

Note that you said the magic word 'jousts'. Even strafing makes it a hard time for fighters to kill a bomber. They are big, slow, have less guns and will usually fall to a fighter who isn't a complete idiot.

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For the Core.

[tansytansey]

Eh, ran out of time to write a post replying to everyones' ideas, and I've got to go to work, so I'll say this instead:

This is not the first 'nerf the SNAC/Bombers' thread. Very little about bombers has changed in this update, they are still the same machine they were in 4.84. Perhaps that's saying something.

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[SevereTrinity]

Actually, one major change was made that affects you all. (Those that don't fly in a straight line)

All bomber torp slots were changed to only a 15 degree cone, anything else is a bug and should be reported.

Basically, this means that fighters can slide all over you, abuse that cone of fire, and you can't do anything. Until they fy in a straight line.

That is what nerfed bombers. The fact they can't hit something that is miles away in the top corner of it's screen.

[Jihadjoe]

And honestly, if you as a fighter pilot put yourself into the position to be hit by a SNAC, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

This isn't a true statement.

Yesterday I watched as someone got fluke-snac'd by someone on their side in a furball. I mean, the chances were so slim, and the pilot who got tagged by it was doing nothing wrong. I should know, I was trying very hard to kill them.

Very few people are properly effective in bombers against fighters in a large fight. I can count those that I know who can do it properly on my fingers. To SNAC someone who isn't jousting you like a moron is very -very- difficult and takes a lot of practice.

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[Towli123]

what is snac?

[Hawkwings]

SNAC is Supernova Antimatter Cannon, the bomber weapon that every bomber uses.

And that alone shows the problem. EVERY bomber uses it. Meaning that it is recognizably better than any other bomber weapon out there. Does anyone else see the problem with this? Remember vanilla freelancer servers where everyone was flying eagles with nomad guns?

If you don't want to nerf the SN, don't want to buff fighters, don't want to nerf bombers, then at LEAST give bombers some more variety in weapons. And not just "oh, here's another sucky bomber weapon" variety. I mean some weapon with a clear advantage in one category or another.

How's this for an idea? Give the starkiller and sunslayer "armor piercing" capability. So once the shields are down, you can fire these torpedoes at subsystems, and the torpedo will ignore the main ship's hitbox, and only damage that subsystem? I think they currently have enough damage to kill most capship mounts pretty easily, so this would be a good weapon for taking out the enemy's shield generator, CM dropper, and main cannons, for instance.

How about a rocket pod weapon? Have it fire a bunch of unguided projectiles that accelerate at 40m/s^2, with a little bit of spread in the paths of the rockets. Each one would do about the damage of a starkiller, but there would be like 20 of them, for instance. With these a "support" bomber could hang back and pepper capships from long range, but risk missing a lot, or he could go in for a close attack run and hit 'em with a full rocket volley.

I've got more ideas too. My point is that the SNAC should not be the end all be all of bomber weapons.

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[mjolnir]

I think SN is fine personally, it is very much balanced now vs GBs, Cruisers and BS.

What I think is a good idea is changing normal bomber guns (as Kress suggested), so that they don't use fighter guns but a completely different class with something like

1.00-2.00 refire, ~1500 damage per shot, some 300 energy per shot, ~800m range, 400-500m/s speed.

Bomber SNing things by itself is not so big problem. What I see as a problem is that if it's not targeted it can fire guns and hit fighters with them rather fine. If fighters decide to hit bomber instead it can hit them even easier with guns (say 4 Debs)... and fire mini/sn in between. So changing their gun slots would actually change a lot in anti-fighter use.

Try Fafnir if you want, with just 2 lvl 9s slots it doesn't matter much that it can spam SN... as it has trouble downing the VHF shield all the time.

That said this is for 4.86 as it would need lot of work.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.