I think the SNAC must be leave alone. The bombers are slower than fighters, so need something to the bombers too. I believe thats hurt if you die by only one SNAC shoot. Try to move more and dont try to do against SNAC. The Snac is well balanced now, and unnecessary lowering the bombres more by lowering SNAC. Think about that, absolutely not easy to hit a fighter with SNAC. Who can do it multiple times, he is not thank it for SNAC mostly but his skills and experiment. :crazy:
Trust me, if a player who gets his kills by SNAC alone, and tried fighting without it, he would die.
But anyways, that topic was dropped for a more likely approach of better Defining of each ship type and thus stripping Bombers of their near-gunboat armor plating.
' Wrote:I don't think reducing the bot amount the bombers have would be that bad for bomber pilots. Sure they would die faster, but still a skilled bomber pilot can stay alive very long even if he would have 20-30 bots less.
20-30 wouldn't be too much of a problem, but Raisu was suggesting 50-60% decrease. Bomber pilots even with that would still be able to kill capital ships, yes, and will answer after I reply to Raisu as well, since his post gets the same answer from me.
' Wrote:And as its been said, the best thing you could ever have happen, is your about to finish off a bomber, he gets a lucky SNAC on someone, and boom hes refilled. And we're back at shooting through another 142-414k armor points.
And how will this change by reducing the amount of bots/bats a bomber has? They will still have the same skill and ability to kill fighters one hit. Reducing the amount of bots/bats they have will only hinder their ability to fight capital ships, and not fighters, which I believe is the opposite of the point to this thread.
Now, can we move away from this idea and discuss other possible changes?
Quote:But anyways, that topic was dropped for a more likely approach of better Defining of each ship type and thus stripping Bombers of their near-gunboat armor plating.
Bombers only have the armour near to that of a Gunboat with a 2.5 armour upgrade. Point out to me how many Gunboats you see that fly without an armour upgrade. So, really, Bombers have at least 2.5x less armour than a Gunboat. You can't argue one fact without considering another, so your point is irrelevant. A Liberty Gunboat has 110000 armour without an upgrade. The Barghest (one of the most heavily armoured bombers) has 24500 armour unarmoured, and roughly 61250 armour with a 2.5 upgrade. How is 50% of the armour of an unarmoured Gunboat "near-gunboat armour"?
"Can guns be made to affect different ship classes differently? Kind of like the way the shields are affected by special types of guns depending on what type they are.
For example, make the SNAC do 20,000 damage against all fighter-class ships, and the normal amount against freighter-class ships."
now mini razor (can use al heavy fighter or larger fighter class ship)
What you think? Can i win with a big slow bomber agains faster razored hf/vhfs? i mean razor have better damage, better speed and better refire.... Sir.. You call this balance? :rtfm:
' Wrote:What you think? Can i win with a big slow bomber agains faster razored hf/vhfs? i mean razor have better damage, better speed and better refire.... Sir.. You call this balance? :rtfm:
It's already been said many times that this suggestion is not possible to implement, so don't get too upset. It's not gonna happen, and this thread has moved away from this point and on to other possible changes to Bombers/SNAC.
Well, I can say a few things, not much in terms of stats and skill but..I'm quite good with using razors, and I've started to use a SNAC on my bomber some 2 weeks ago? This was the first time I used it on the server. Let me give you an example of my last fight. I was with a friend who was lagging and couldnt really fight, against about 8 or more fighters. Now, we were both in bombers, and I managed to get 7 kills with a SNAC/razor combo, one of those kills being without guns, only that. Only reason I lost in the end was not lack of bots/bats but because I lost my thruster due to missile spam. And even without a thruster I killed one guy with only mines...so I can say that it's pretty much too easy to kill fighters with a bomber. In fact, that's turned to be their primary role rather than killing caps. No idea how to fix it aside from removing bombers completely to be honest:P
' Wrote:well if we were to leave weapons alone, what other options would make them less effective toward fighters?
are bombers too agile? too heavily armored?
likely a combination of the above along with some other things.
-how effective are bombers at dodging...both cap and fighter fire?
-would reducing their hull reduce their anti-capship effectiveness?
Personally I believe the solution is none of the above. I'd be happy to see changes happen to bomber/SNAC, provided someone can come up with a balance that makes sense and is fair. Right now everyone is only thinking of either fighters or capital ships or bombers, and not everything on a grand scale. You can't change one without effecting another, and that is why I'm arguing against the ideas people bring up, the balance is a delicate one. Personally I would prefer seeing hordes of rampant bombers than hordes of rampant cruisers.
Bombers are fairly effective at dodging, but it's all subjective on skill and very hard to measure. I can't fight and win against a capital ship in a bomber solo, yet Sindy can. I can also beat Sindy in a 1vs1 bomber fight.
Reducing their hull likely would reduce their anti-cap effectiveness. There is a reason they have higher armour and bot/bat count than fighters, after all.
I still don't see how bombers are -that- great against fighters.
Seriously, I dare you, get any bomber pilot, any one at all, the best on the server if you want, and I'll beat him in my fighter.
And not cause I'm "that awesome", but simply because fighters are not that bad against bombers.
The whole SNAC deal.. I say get over yourselves. I don't really get who you guys are fighting, but I've never actually realized how someone can be blown away by a SNAC that easy.
Nerf this, nerf that.
I think none of the proposed solutions are justified, because they'd hinder bombers' effectiveness versus capital ships, just cause some fighters get whacked by SNACs.
Personally, the one and only justified nerf for bombers would be:
Making bombers turrets only, and making guns specially for bombers, who'd :
- Take more energy so fighters can't use them
- Have speeds of around 500
- Do above average damage to shields and hulls.
Fighters could dodge those bullets with ease, and bombers would get a more effective weapon against capital ships, while it could always be balanced.
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<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
it's always the same polarized opinions in these debates.
one side thinks that because they can/can't (insert balance issue) that it needs to be changed. while the other side thinks they should/shouldn't (insert balance issue) and it should be left alone.
both sides never seem to want to consider the others point of view or at the very least do some testing to try to figure out a solution.
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