My ass.
SNACing someone flying a fighter is easy, and there's one reason to it: 90% of the pilots on the server have no clue how to fight a bomber, so they'll just joust bombers and expect nothing of it. What really screws you over is when you have people on your side in group fights who do that.
So what if there's a technique to fight bombers that involves not jousting them when your shield goes down? It takes half an hour to down the bomber then, something that is more of a chore than anything.
Why even fly a fighter if it's only going to make a difference in a small amount of battles? In 9 out of 10 engagements, the other guy will joust a bomber, and get SNACed. In a fighter, it actually takes skill to kill the other pilot, even if he has no clue how to fly. Sure... "lol you suck lern to fly" is the first thing all of you are throwing out here...
But what's the point of balancing? Shouldn't the ships/equipment be balanced to the skill level that the majority of the server plays at?
I'm guessing most of you haven't even read this, so I'll repost it:
Quote:In Omicron Kappa a while back, I went there on my falcata to buy a SNAC. I got jumped by 9, yes, 9 corsairs. Titans, Talons, Praetorians, etc.
Funny thing is, I won. At the end of the fight, I still had 60 bots left, because everytime I was about to die, I ended up SNACing someone and getting full regens.
Now, no matter HOW badly they piloted, if I was in a fighter, I wouldn't be able to stand up to even 4 of them.
That clearly says something is wrong with the SNAC balance, and if you don't think so, then I'm thinking you're just afraid to lose your uber blue-message generator.
Sorry I have to say my note (which will piss people as usually)... after reading 18 pages of this... SNAC is balanced, ships need balancing, even if we take the best (most skilled) pilot on server, whoever it is, and get him into bomber, in my opinion, he/she should have a BIG trouble fighting HF or VHF with no-good pilot... it shouldn't be that bomber kills solo everything from LF to Cruiser when you get enough skills...
Remember, its Roleplay server not PvP...
I sadly must say that it looks like a lot of people seem to (judging from posts) Roleplay just to get PvP, not PvP for the sake of RP ...
Just... C'mon guys, some people are here because of the RP and don't want to spend half year training just to not be killed everytime they try to undock.
But to SNAC once more, as I said, and others above as well, ship classes should be defined a more, not SNAC nerfed... And I would agree with adding more anti-cap weapons... say what you like about equality of SNAC and SN, but there IS a reason why noone uses SN.
See you in space.
Love & Peace,
Elvin
I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.
' Wrote:Why even fly a fighter if it's only going to make a difference in a small amount of battles? In 9 out of 10 engagements, the other guy will joust a bomber, and get SNACed. In a fighter, it actually takes skill to kill the other pilot, even if he has no clue how to fly. Sure... "lol you suck lern to fly" is the first thing all of you are throwing out here...
All ships, from Liberator to Zoner Battleship require skill to fly. So don't even go there.
Quote:I'll admit i'm not a great pilot, Most times I don't even fight without a wingman, but thats pure common sense seeing what ship I fly. But I'll say this -again-. My bomber, having less than HALF of what other bombers have in HP has yet to see a reduction in anti-cap effectiveness.
I've read this already, and it is irrelevant. One person cannot be used to judge the effectiveness of anything, especially since you're only sampling maybe 3% or the market. As I recall, the Upholder has a relatively flat fuselage and is among the 48K lighter bombers. Please try fly an unarmoured Barghest against an entire LNS lolfleet with fighter escorts all mounting missiles.
It's much like the situation where people were crying for a nerf on the new Dessie weapons because the Kusari Destroyer was totally owning with them, but by nerfing the turrets to balance the Kusari Destroyer they would have made the larger, slower destroyers underpowered.
While you're right, its' not impossible for a bomber with 50% less armour than now to still continue to be effective anti-cap, everyone here is complaining about being killed by SNACs.
Quote:In Omicron Kappa a while back, I went there on my falcata to buy a SNAC. I got jumped by 9, yes, 9 corsairs. Titans, Talons, Praetorians, etc.
Funny thing is, I won. At the end of the fight, I still had 60 bots left, because everytime I was about to die, I ended up SNACing someone and getting full regens.
Now, no matter HOW badly they piloted, if I was in a fighter, I wouldn't be able to stand up to even 4 of them.
That clearly says something is wrong with the SNAC balance, and if you don't think so, then I'm thinking you're just afraid to lose your uber blue-message generator.
Don't you see? Even if you nerfed bombers hull/agility/whatever, this will still happen and nothing will be solved. The problem will still exist. If you nerf the SNAC bombers it will effect their ability to kill cap ships and not so much fighters, but if you nerf the actual bombers, the pilots (because it is a skill based game) will still be able to SNAC fighters.
So, I think we're barking up the wrong tree by screaming for Nerfs on bombers. Maybe fighters just need a buff.
My ass.
SNACing someone flying a fighter is easy, and there's one reason to it: 90% of the pilots on the server have no clue how to fight a bomber, so they'll just joust bombers and expect nothing of it. What really screws you over is when you have people on your side in group fights who do that.
Thank you for implying that anyone who can't SN a fighter flying head on at an efficient rate is a bad pilot. I'm sure that myself, and several other players on the server possess very flushed cheeks from the insult.
But on another note, just because you can - and the one to three other people who have posted on the forums - can SN fighters with great ease does not mean that more than 90% of the server can do it effectively. Frankly, most of the time, it comes down to luck for the rest of us.
Get out of your well, explore the world. Staying in there will only make you biased and blind to everything else. Fly with some other pilots than the people you're used to flying with, such as the RM. You'd be surprised.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
Umm... Nighthawk... if you left the SNAC alone and nerfed bombers size/agility/hull, then that would reduce the likelihood of that situation occuring. Why? Because the fighters would be able to hit the bomber more easily, or do more damage to it faster, while the bomber would have a harder time lining up shots for his SNAC oneshotting. The results would be far from your claim of "nothing would change".
' Wrote:Umm... Nighthawk... if you left the SNAC alone and nerfed bombers size/agility/hull, then that would reduce the likelihood of that situation occuring. Why? Because the fighters would be able to hit the bomber more easily, or do more damage to it faster, while the bomber would have a harder time lining up shots for his SNAC oneshotting. The results would be far from your claim of "nothing would change".
Yes, it would be harder, but people would still do it. Most likely with more efficiency, because it would force them to become better pilots. Just look at the Barghest, that beast is big, slow and soaks up missiles, yet you can still kill fighters with it. If anything, it will only make it harder for bombers to kill Gunboats, not fighters.
' Wrote:Sorry I have to say my note (which will piss people as usually)... after reading 18 pages of this... SNAC is balanced, ships need balancing, even if we take the best (most skilled) pilot on server, whoever it is, and get him into bomber, in my opinion, he/she should have a BIG trouble fighting HF or VHF with no-good pilot... it shouldn't be that bomber kills solo everything from LF to Cruiser when you get enough skills...
Remember, its Roleplay server not PvP...
I sadly must say that it looks like a lot of people seem to (judging from posts) Roleplay just to get PvP, not PvP for the sake of RP ...
Just... C'mon guys, some people are here because of the RP and don't want to spend half year training just to not be killed everytime they try to undock.
But to SNAC once more, as I said, and others above as well, ship classes should be defined a more, not SNAC nerfed... And I would agree with adding more anti-cap weapons... say what you like about equality of SNAC and SN, but there IS a reason why noone uses SN.
See you in space.
Love & Peace,
Elvin
people use SN it depends how the build their bomber to fight against What. I agree that SNAC should be left alone maybe add another 20k damage to it.
The fundamental issue with bombers (if you will agree that there is an issue at all) is that they are essentially slower Fighters with SNAC launchers. Bombers, from the very begining, should have had different external equipment from Fighters. Because now you can't create a special anti-Bomber weapon (anything a Fighter can carry, a Bomber can mount). And you can't give Bombers special shields that could be easily destroyed by Fighter weapons because they also share the same shield types.
Sure, Bombers have less agility, but not so much less that a skilled Bomber could not dodge an equaly skilled Fighter for enough time to devastate a capital ship. 1 v 1 is always a matter of skill, but if you're talking about Real-Time Strategy Gameplay mechanics, it's not balanced.
Take Homeworld, for example. The "Bombers" in that game were in fact less agile versions of the game's "Fighters." In this regard, Discovery and Homeworld are like. Except that Homeworld's Bombers did not carry super-duper Novas. The Cap-Ship killers were the Frigate Cannons (aka, ships that are super slow). 3 Homeworld Frigate Cannons could deal devastating damage to a Capital Ship (just like Discovery Bombers can), but they were more or less stationary. When you give something like a SNAC or Nova to a vessel that can duck Fighters, the Strategy portion of the game becomes unbalanced. You get this:
A Capital-Ship killer should be an easy picking for the Fighters. A considerable amount of hull, but still a relatively easy target. Short story: yes, I would only give SNAC to a Gunboat agile ship and no one else. But that would render Bombers useless so I won't go there.
My point is, VHF should be able to kill Bombers faster for the sake of RTS gameplay. Forget that SNACs can take out Fighters in one shot. That's a matter of stupidity vs skill (any VHF that isn't picking his nose should be able to dodge a SNAC at 500m away). But if you have an agile ship with devastating anti-Capital Ship capabilities, you need a counter vessel that can take that Bomber out quickly. Thus far, you need about 3 skilled Fighters to effectively distract an equally skilled Bomber.
Um actually from an RP and PvP standpoint here is the big issue...
VERY HEAVY FIGHTER
HEAVY FIGHTER
LIGHT FIGHTER
when it comes to it, most pilots should be flying HF's. Bombers get rocked by HF's by the way, and a HF pilot with skill can knock around VHF's.
VHF are -very heavy- fighters and therefore are missing much of the advantage that HF's have over a bomber, maneuverability.
The problem is that everyone thinks a VHF is the interceptor class fighter that should rock a bombers socks and it aint, its like a gigantic F-15 loaded with heavy aranment. When your planning to knock out some attack ships, or even huge heavy fighters like oversize MiG's, you use an F-16. A heavy fighter that is still light enough to run circles around most other planes.
HF-your dream interceptor that lolrapes bombers
VHF- your gigantic fighter that barely outturns a bomber but hits like a rock.
P.S. anyone who doesn't know the difference, try SNAC'ing a HF instead of a VHF. Its about 500% harder for me, maybe a bit better/worse for others.
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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'
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