The last batch of posts underlines the problem of rules and interpretation, which in turn points to the need for rules to correct for imbalances in the MOD. Sure if the boss is in you can always get a call on the play from him... and his word shall carry death eternal...but as we also know the boss is a busy guy, and would rather be playing the game than running out with the ruler to see if you cross the line. Ideally the game is built so no one can break any rules, because there aren't any.
I understand the desire to expand the faction system out to the players in the form of role play, and the use of ID cargo to bin us. But without a comprehensive plan that everyone gets form a natural extension of the original game your left with new rules which everyone must get.
For example. Pirates can't jack ships from capital ships but terrorist can do whatever they want, and freelancer can do anything except what?
I was on a starwars role play total conversion mod that made it somewhat clearer. You could do whatever you wanted to but you couldnt buy a faction ships (the better ones) till you joined a faction. This had a number of effects. One you knew who you where looking at by their ship. You had to join a faction to get on with you character evolution. Factions actively sot out players to bolster there ranks.
Am I a mile off the thread? One other thing that might help is a defined goal for each faction. I though of the destructible storage containers having a unique cargo item which would serve as a target, as well as score keeping method for the factions.(raids)
Am I two miles off the thread now?
Back to the point. Using rules to balance the MOD which have to be enforced by admins is a formula for discord. I know now you cant jack ships from a cap ship unless youre a terrorist. Since, I play within the rules I won't cross that line. But what is the down side of being a terrorist... am I now KOS for anyone with balls? And if I read the Freelancer ID info card right there is no such stipulation on that faction at all?
I'm not trying to confuse the issue, it's confusing me.
Someone brought up the point of this not being a point and shoot MOD but rather role play... and that: we the players should invest in reading the forum threads. But I would have to say that it has not added much clarity to even this issue for me.
I was looking forward to working up to a battle ship and going over to Cambridge and stirring things up for the back and forth men form yoyo.... I think if they have to be protected by rules we have lost an opportunity for role-play. Every eco system should have balance...generally there are millions of plants, hundreds of plant eaters and handful of predators. In balance all things come up. Without biting monster the plant eaters get to fat and the plants suffer. With too many monsters the plant eaters disappear and the monsters starve. But to meddle with the natural order always leads to chaos. You've created these monsters... these killer bees and they want to fly north and sting
I'm sure the creator has a grand picture of where this ship should go. But with ten steering wheels it's very hard to get there in an order manner.
I believe on the most part the players get it, and want it. But the fatal flaw is that the vision has to be pervasive, and inherent. Mother nature is always looking to clip the peaks and fill the valleys thus there might be swings but the pendulum spends the most time in the middle. The original game has an inherent balance, which didn't need any rules. If you shot at the police they shot back and if you did it enough your rep changed. If you where phat you got phat foes. If you had a fat ship you could make bigger bets, but the risks balanced the payoff. In all things balance. More armor slower turning. No rules to read or break. Inherent compliance. But still an open structure full of countless choices. Rules puts the admins at odds with the players, where they should be out stirring things up they have to be settling them down.
Noobs should be a cherished endless resource to be mentored and helped by the phat players. Everyone benefits from better players. Sure some players will always be outside of this... It is called Freelancer after all. But again the inherent point of playing on line is to be part of a community... If only to say hi in passing or asking for directions. Role-play could be the structure for that community, but since the most important rule is to have fun. Fun must be the pervasive tone of the community. You and your buddies come run me down, but we all know you are going to face the same stick end for doing it. It is always easier to destroy than create. And we are order and nature is disorder, but again the original game gives you a chance to prove your will, and prevail if it is true.
There are no easy answers on how to make role play work...You can't just hand out hats and see what happens. What you can do: is build in a curve that is constantly bending the players towards the goals of their roles. Some players will always fly against the current, but if most follow the easy path for there role you have inherent compliance. A character arch should push them from one role to the next, and that should be pervasive as well.
Please for give me for all this jaw jacking. If I put all this out there maybe someone in a position to make it happen will be triggered into action... and then the admins can play the game in peace and not spend countless hours haggling with forum threads.
Hey, posting long threads are fine...At least you are not one-lining like I sometimes do. (Don't one line.)
You have many valid points, and your style of writing is very very colorful and somewhat convoluted. Many people agree with you that the faction ships/elite ships belong on the guard bases, which require you to have a VERY good rep with the faction beforehand.
Your points abour rules. True, life may seem fun w/o rules to follow. But did you see how Lorry reacted to you? Without rules, Disco would not be a fun place at all for anyone. There is also no possible way that we can create an utopia environment where all rules and regulations are implied and do not need to be defined or restated. W/o rules, we can't have fun. Ever try playing monopoly w/o the rules?
You also ask:
Quote:"But what is the down side of being a terrorist... am I now KOS for anyone with balls?"
True, but if you ask someone like caylith, X-Vlad, or OsoRojo, who all have chars who are infamous terrorists in Sirius, why...they will tell you that it is because they find it fun and interesting. The same reason why I think being a terrorist/pirate would not be fun/interesting. If you put restrictions on this or even "invisible, implied" restrictions, do you think that it would be fun?
Just to give you a little food for thought.
Anyway, I hope you do enjoy your time here, as I have too.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
Well said, made more sence than 99% of the crap I read on most of these pages. I have read the rules of the server and they seemed way to bothersome, I like my rules better! What are my rules? simple if you don't want me to shoot you, then don't shoot me! I find it way easer than checking every ones ID what level they are and what faction they belong to. I am too busy mining and hauling freight as a independent freelancer, and that to is a role.:cool:
My Lil' boats are
SS_Scorpion
SS_JackyBlue
SS_Guppy
Just about your point about pirates vs. terrorists.... sure terrorists can blow up stuff in whatever ship they like. But they may not pirate. Ie. a terrorist can't say:
"GIMME $10M OR I BLOW U2 KINGDOM COME!!!!11!!1"
Conversely a pirate must give a warning or demand before they start shooting. Some so-called pirates who shall remain nameless (X-vlad!) style themselves as terrorists and get around this rule, by demanding a ridiculous sum and no time in which to reply. O well.
I think Diablo said it well and I agree: Powerful ships and uber-weapons should only be available on guard bases. That forces the player into RP; that is, they must get in good with the particular faction, otherwise they'll be stuck with low-end stuff (in a similar fashion to the Star Wars thing.)
And ... Oh boy has there been some crap recently ...
Preon, entertaining and extremely legible, if not a little labyrinthine, but hey ... Needs must.
The rules, whether posted or not were written for the roleplayer that used to inhabit this server, not the
influx of the squawking cry of ... 'Wanna PvP'... That has migrated this way recently.
Sorry if it takes a little more thought to enter into the spirit of this. Shame really ...
Common sense could prevail one day, though I doubt it now.
Hoodlum
Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."
Actually, Hood, I disagree. I have continually proposed my theory that many people have disregarded, and it is the fact that perhaps, people are embarassed to RP, and purposely break the rules to get down and boogie with some PvP action. This, from my point of view, explains terrorists who do nothing but shoot people up.
How is that fun at all?
Because they DON'T want to RP. To them, it's fun because it is PvP. Is RP not fun? No, they just don't want to do it, because they are embarassed to do it.
Other terrorists, like X-Vlad and OsoRojo, have their RP threads. THIS is good. Randomly shooting people is BAD.
Hoodlum, the "wanna pvp" cry, to me, is ok as long as it contributes in some way, shape, or form to RP. For instance, if I went to Dab, and said, "I hate you. Let's kill each other!" (I don't hate dab.) That is NOT RP. But if I went to Dab and said, "Hey, Luciaden, remember me? Ya killed my brother! Take this, you mutha!" That is decent RP.
Still, Preon has very valid points. But I think that you[Preon] have just come in and met a lot of non-RP abiding people. I had a conversation with another player in Private chat about the Kusari vs. Bretonia situation. Afterwards, I couldn't help feeling stupid. But I was so roused up by it and actually convinced myself to be really interested in the topic. That, is REAL RP, and despite making me feel silly, it was fun.
In a way, Preon, you contradict yourself, and there really is no right path to take, so do not feel bad. It's either the lady or the tiger. You say that the
Quote:most important rule is to have fun
This to some people means PvP. To many others, it means RP.
Rules are necessary to enforce RP.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
I think you missed the point of no rules... so let's see if you get this.
Did you enjoy the single player version of Freelancer? Yes/No?
Diid you break any rules playing it? Yes/No?
Did you have to read the rules? Yes/No?
Did an admin have to explain the intent of the rules? Yes/No?
These aren't answers on how to build a multiplayer Mod for Freelancer. They are some of the puzzles to solve in making it rule proof.
Some of the other puzzles are:
Retain the original balance but at the same time add role play
Have a vision so clear and complete before you begin to change things that everyone right from the start gets it.
But most importantly make it fun.
>>> I was doing mission after mission to make money and stopped reading the fine print. It turned out the mission I took was against the station I launched from. Before I knew it I was under attack from the guys I thought I was working for. In my confusion over this dilemma I almost got fragged. I couldn't go back, I couldnt go forward all I could do was laugh...
The hardest things are the ones you under estimate!
Looks like my jaw jacking juices are flowing: so maybe this thread will serve to help formulate the methodology to create The Chaos MOD.
' Wrote:I think you missed the point of no rules... so let's see if you get this.
1) Did you enjoy the single player version of Freelancer? Yes/No?
2) Diid you break any rules playing it? Yes/No?
3) Did you have to read the rules? Yes/No?
4) Did an admin have to explain the intent of the rules? Yes/No?
These aren't answers on how to build a multiplayer Mod for Freelancer. They are some of the puzzles to solve in making it rule proof.
No, I do not think I did.
1) Yes
2) Yes; shot King and had to restart.
3) This does not apply to SP. Think about it. You are playing a game designed FOR YOUR SELF-Satisfaction.
4) Same as above
The answers to 3 and 4 are simple. In SP, you are playing with and against a COMPUTER.
The reason that 3 and 4 exist is because we are human, and we cannot be programmed to follow rules instictively. And Preon, do not feel angry at anything I am saying. Your points are very valid, but we cannot possibly create that form of environment.
Same reason why there has to be rules for every game. Why do you think the other FL servers died? Because they had no Wolfpack, Korrd, or Angel.
But I agree that the rules should be made more obvious.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
When you shot King you had to restart. That's a kind of cause and effect. Which lead to your programming adjustment. You where programmed. I don't think an MP mod would have to resort to that extreme type of method, but it: no doubt changed the way you played the game...instantly...LOL
Cause and effect. You decide not to take the easy way, and the odds stack against you. The pervasive curve pushing you back to your role.
What? I'm completely dumbfounded at attempting to figure out what you are trying to say...
Answer me this: Are you saying that the rules should be clearer?
or are you saying that Rules are bad and should not be there?
or are you saying that the Rules in the Mod should be self-explanatory?
Because I'm sure I have answered every single one of those questions...
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
![[Image: sighoodlumkb4.jpg]](http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g59/Fellow_Hoodlum/sighoodlumkb4.jpg)