' Wrote:Quite frankly, I heard about the boot you got firsthand, and I wasn't sure if it was the best measure, as every insult you threw out was totally in RP.
I can also vouch for Hyung being a nice person IRL, as he was one of the reasons I stuck around in the Keepers despite the fact that I was having a very difficult time RPing mine and did not enjoy it.
I had a good few 5AM flight time sessions with ya, and even though I've since left the Collective of Blue Squishies, I'll be your wingman any day.
What boot? I dont understand. I'm still IN OPG. The story still continues. That "Venerable" thread was an opportunity for good RP.
It's just I've been hearing some untrue and incorrect things that should be cleared up by reading this thread.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
I began writing this before #9, and it appears that my final apology was founded.
I do not see how Touched Gently's transmissions were at all inappropriate. I can easily imagine a bored Corsair fiddling with some communication equipment getting the hilarious idea of calling up a random Rogue and having a laugh while his starving family watches glumly from the kitchen table.
The Rogue transmission to the Elders just as appropriate. Diplomatic relationships can break down in a GC's heartbeat, the only responsible thing a Rogue leader of any position could do is to make sure this one hasn't.
As for the actual diplomacy, it is not a problem that the Rogues are neutral with the Corsairs while the Corsairs reciprocate with hostility. It's perfectly reasonable considering the lack of interaction between the two factions, and as so aptly demonstrated it can be greatly beneficial to Discovery in the sense of adding role-playing opportunities.
Sixthly, I wouldn't be surprised if an LH assassin was dispatched to exhibit the Hacker sympathy toward Corsair hostility.
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The Lane Hackers certainly do not like the Corsairs. The reasons are a bit fuzzy to me -- many things are -- but chances are the man I trust for guidance in these matters will undoubtedly show his face here soon. I'll do as best I can in the meantime.
If there was any sort of friendly treaty between the Rogues and Corsairs, there would at the very least be murmuring from Liberty's expanses of ice.
From the dark matter clouds too, likely.
On that note, the Lane Hackers were originally softly -- some would argue too soft to be important -- split into two groups: those on the Texas/California side of Liberty and those on the Colorado side. I would venture to guess that this division of sorts made it easier to establish a business relationship with both the Outcasts and Hogosha. I don't think the agreement with Hogosha goes at all beyond that of business, they are merely allowed to bring artifacts to the Galileo/Kepler Hackers who handle the smuggling from there. As far as I know, Outcasts have never moved Artifacts through Kusari so there has never been any real conflict with Hogosha in that aspect. From Outcast space, Lane Hackers as well as Outcasts bring artifacts to Liberty. In terms of lore, the Outcasts wouldn't go further than the Lane Hacker bases, though I'm certain player Outcasts do.
The interface between Liberty and the rest of Sirius in Artifact smuggling is nearly exclusively that of Lane Hackers. Inside Liberty Hackers, Junkers, and Rogues cooperate.
This all ties in with the Hacker relationship with the Corsairs. There has been concern that the Corsairs may practice imperialism in Liberty.
In terms of business, this would damage the artifact market on the supply side without a doubt. Outcast access to Liberty would be diminished and reliance would focus toward Hogosha. Times wouldn't be good for Artifact smugglers, unless they are Hogosha.
With Corsair presence in Liberty, the Outcasts would expect direct retaliation from the Hackers to compliment their own. This would shift the focus from the primary goals of the Hackers, perhaps as far as being practically abandoned. Ruefully neglected, in any case.
Of course, Hackers care for the well-being of Liberty. Most may not care for politics, but if Liberty goes downhill so do the Hackers. Corsairs attacking corporate interests in Liberty may benefit the Hackers to some extent -- a very small extent, depending on your perspective -- but just like the Rheinland Military attacking Liberty, Corsairs attacking Liberty would not be good in the long run for the Hackers.
The Rogues and Hackers are close siblings. Both are diverse groups, each with a myriad of ideologies, I would say they are only clearly set apart in the realm of technology and education -- some would also insist on "acne." They cooperate in nearly everything inside Liberty. Though both are members of the Outcast alliance, the Hackers are situated more on the outskirts of Liberty -- as touched on earlier -- and are thereby inherently more attuned to the diplomacy of their foreign allies. I would posit that while Rogues are more concerned with the (relative) integrity of Liberty, Hackers are more concerned with the cohesion of Liberty and perhaps with a wider perspective.
As a simplification, the Rogues are the blunt power of the dark Liberty and the Hackers provide the less obvious necessities. Without either, the Outcast Alliance would have no foothold in Liberty, and if the alliance ceases to serve the purposes of either, that would quickly become the case. In that manner, the Hacker and Rogue relationship with the Corsairs is only as hostile as it needs to be, not more. However, this relationship is not altogether contrary to that of the Outcasts. The Corsairs are not liked, in any way, shape, or color.
JakeSG Wrote:The Hackers might be different, as they seem to be a more terroristic movement than the Rogues and significantly closer to their Outcast masters.
Some Hackers are political terrorists, some are as self-serving as any Rogue. Some say Hackers care for nothing but themselves and some would insist this to be true, referencing a station rumor. Rumors are, of course, little more than their namesake but considering how they tell the story Freelancer, I would hold it to be true to an extent, but only with four sugars and cream.
In Liberty, the Outcasts are no masters. I mentioned the Hacker-Outcast relationship sufficiently above, I think.
I don't think I pulled the discussion too far off-track, I apologize if I did. My fundamental point is much what has already been said, we don't concern ourselves with the Corsairs until they concern themselves with us.
Which is why I don't understand how they have a "all of liberty" controlled Artifact commerce. Lane Hackers do not control Junker interests, nor can they stop a Junker/Corsair liason, nor would they know about it. I know many Corsairs do not roleplay that the Lane Hackers have "the" main hand on it. In fact, I do know many Corsairs do deliveries themselves and that is certainly within RP grounds.
In all this talk about Lane Hackers and Rogues, I have yet to see forum evidence that OPG have been told to back off from "threatening" Rogue / Hacker interests (and I have searched, extensively). Corsair pride and posturing would not stop simply because a non-existant "treaty" is in effect.
Show me proof please that Corsairs are "neutral" to Liberty Rogues. From what I see on the infocards, the Rogues are considered enemies of Corsairs. Hackers would be a logical extension if the hackers are so buddy buddy with the Rogues.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
Hackers and Junkers cooperate on a neutral basis, neither control the other's interests.
I disagree with you that the Hackers would not know of a Corsair-Junker liaison, strongly disagree, but it would undoubtedly depend on circumstances. If the liaison involved artifact trade inside Liberty, the Hacker solution would be extreme and effective. I don't see how Corsairs could maintain such activity. Corsairs don't have any power in Liberty, and the Junkers can't but wouldn't oppose the Hackers or Rogues. If I misunderstand, elaborate.
In terms of diplomacy, let me reiterate: it is not a problem that the Corsair stance toward Rogues is hostile, even if the reciprocal stance is neutral. The Corsair-Hacker diplomacy, on the other hand, is definitely all red.
Perhaps I should be more concise in this post: you have not taken any wrong steps in your role-play and your conclusions are fundamentally correct.
Not to intrude and nothing to do with any specific role play but for clarification--Rogues support the WAR on Outcast side and make capital ships for use in it--the majority being assumed to be deployed on the frontlines?
Am I wrong on this--hasn't this always been the case? its mentioned in news and rumors or was.
Alcatraz is mentioned on the infocard as playing host to Corsairs in Liberty space...I guess that implies non-hostility in order for them to land there?...
' Wrote:Not to intrude and nothing to do with any specific role play but for clarification--Rogues support the WAR on Outcast side and make capital ships for use in it--the majority being assumed to be deployed on the frontlines?
Am I wrong on this--hasn't this always been the case? its mentioned in news and rumors or was.
The Rogues don't give a damn about that war--- the Mollies do. Remember that the Mollies and Rogues are even closer than Hackers and Rogues. But even the MR and LR have different visions. Mollies use caps against corsairs, are against slavery and cardamine. Rogues only care about the credits, heck, they even sell slaves on LR bases! Also, they prefer their HFs and Bombers.
The Rogues is completely neutral in that war, but they'd indeed rather shoot a 'sair than an OC on paper.
I really regret ever abbreviating Corsair as 'sair whenever I did that oh... Two years ago, about. I, to my knowledge, started this unfortunate trend. Moving on!
Quote:The Lane Hackers certainly do not like the Corsairs. The reasons are a bit fuzzy to me -- many things are -- but chances are the man I trust for guidance in these matters will undoubtedly show his face here soon. I'll do as best I can in the meantime.
Umm, since this is really the only part of this conversation on which I can offer my insight...
I believe it has something to do with Hacker-Corsair conflict in Bretonia... But perhaps I'm wrong.
' Wrote:The Rogues don't give a damn about that war--- the Mollies do. Remember that the Mollies and Rogues are even closer than Hackers and Rogues. But even the MR and LR have different visions. Mollies use caps against corsairs, are against slavery and cardamine. Rogues only care about the credits, heck, they even sell slaves on LR bases! Also, they prefer their HFs and Bombers.
The Rogues is completely neutral in that war, but they'd indeed rather shoot a 'sair than an OC on paper.
I am not up on all the news and rumors in the new mod but in the old, the Rogues were a primary ally to the Outcasts and actual "allies" in the war against the Corsairs. This is the npc/disco stance. Just wondering how that's dismissed?
I understand what you are saying. Just looking for a good rationale to move from that status to the current one. In the base game here, they do care about the war as I have understood it.
' Wrote:I am not up on all the news and rumors in the new mod but in the old, the Rogues were a rpimary ally to the Outcasts adn actual "allies" in the war against the Corsairs. This is the npc/disco stance. Just wondering how that's dismissed?
I understand what you are saying. Just looking for a good rationale to move from that status to the current one. In the base game here, they do care about the war as I have understood it.
On paper, there is pew-pew.
The LR- will most likely open fire on a 'sair who comes in a WARSHIP. But never they'd destroy a 'sair convoy.
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