back in good old days, my osiris pwnd cap 8 rheinland bs.
when this mod started my corsair dread (cap 7) pwned zoner jugg with cap 8
it is not all about armour and you know it best lancer...
but back to topic
why all need to talk when bh have not the best ships? all your smaller ships are better as ships of your opponents. now you will have better caps as your opponents. are really hunters so awesome that they have better ships as one of the best shipbuilders in sirius (corsairs) or better as someone who has the most advantage technology?(order)
why noone from you screamed how easy you can destroy enemy caps back in 4,84?
i have nothing against remaking the mako hitbox. but i am bored from reading 25 new threads every day about how to make BH cap ships better as all others.
in rp, you are just hunters. not house,not military,not police. so noone will share the most advanced technology with you. and you are still thinking that you must have better ships as order and all unlawfulls?...
oorp.
//only because you can no longer pvp all pirates around without destroying yourself?...
why is noone from you screaming how agile is your gs?(also cap ship...)
why is noone from you screaming that it can destroy corsair gb without loosing shield? (corsair gb is THE HEAVIEST gb ingame....)
why is noone from you screaming how good is your bomber compared to its enemies.
and i can continue for hours.
' Wrote:back in good old days, my osiris pwnd cap 8 rheinland bs.
when this mod started my corsair dread (cap 7) pwned zoner jugg with cap 8
it is not all about armour and you know it best lancer...
but back to topic
why all need to talk when bh have not the best ships? all your smaller ships are better as ships of your opponents. now you will have better caps as your opponents. are really hunters so awesome that they have better ships as one of the best shipbuilders in sirius (corsairs) or better as someone who has the most advantage technology?(order)
why noone from you screamed how easy you can destroy enemy caps back in 4,84?
i have nothing against remaking the mako hitbox. but i am bored from reading 25 new threads every day about how to make BH cap ships better as all others.
in rp, you are just hunters. not house,not military,not police. so noone will share the most advanced technology with you. and you are still thinking that you must have better ships as order and all unlawfulls?...
oorp.
//only because you can no longer pvp all pirates around without destroying yourself?...
why is noone from you screaming how agile is your gs?(also cap ship...)
why is noone from you screaming that it can destroy corsair gb without loosing shield? (corsair gb is THE HEAVIEST gb ingame....)
why is noone from you screaming how good is your bomber compared to its enemies.
and i can continue for hours.
The original post I made - and what Dash is making here - is not that we're asking for better ships. We're asking for a bit more equality is all. Two nights ago I took out an Osiris with my Mako - and the only reason I did so was because Rostock was between me and him - and he didn't use anything but his heavy mortar or mortar to shoot at me - while I used every gun I had, when I could. In reviewing the combat, he had shots that came nowhere near me - yet still hit due to the hitbox. That, and sometimes he would shoot at me and hit the station instead - that's the only thing that saved my ship.
As for back in 4.84 - most of us that are in the official faction now didn't HAVE cap ships back then. Remember, the S/D didn't do caps. Now that we're merged and have become the BHG| / BHG|Core, we're not liking our cap ships - which was reaction due to the cap spam of the DW.
And yes - in RP, we ARE a military, fighting a war against the Order for control of Nomad technology.
We know how agile the GS is and used to be - it got nerfed as well such that I personally can't stand to fly the ship now.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
If you killed a juggy with cap 8 with a Corsair dred the juggy captain SUCKS. Sindroms is right though, the BHG capship lines are "light"
Rhienland is an example of the "Heavy" capship line.
Their battleship has 18 turrets and a boatload of armor.
Their cruiser is nearly the heaviest there is, 11 turrets and all can fire forward, not to mention their gunboat which is very large.
Some other houses are different, such as Bretonia. The Bretonia BS is considered "Light" because it has 14 turrets and is more on the manueverable side than the get up close and pwn you side.
However, their cruiser is large and bulky, so is their gunboat. See, the capital ships dont have to match being light or heavy.
The Mako should be good to go once the hitbox is fixed. It and the Mako are pretty evenly matched, but are different enough to make a battle interesting. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. And the Mako kills Gebs pretty quick - something the Bullhead fails at.
The Bullhead kills other cruisers/destroyers dead fairly consistently. However, I would look into giving more of the turrets a 360-firing arc. Right now only three of them can fire backwards. 5 or 6 might be a workable option. If that seems too much, then give it more hull. In any case, the Geb will still wipe the mat with a Bullhead, largely due to the Geb having a BS shield. How would the Geb fare without the BS shield? Don't really know, but maybe Tenacity could give us his thoughts on that. The Bullhead turns and strafes lazily, but it is a battlecruiser.
The Thresher is awesome - in the right situation. It kills gbs efficiently. It is very difficult to hit at a distance, due to its slender profile. And it has the added advantage of having terrific firing arcs on it's hardpoints - all of them fire at 360 degrees. It turns quick and tight. That said, it's power plant is on the wimpy end of the spectrum. Nor will the 8 turrets scare off too many other vessels of the same class. If you don't keep distance between yourself (in the BH dessie) and your target, you're slag before you can say "lolcaps ftw". Definitely a support role vessel. Doesn't really need fixing. I did once request that it be given "near Kusari destroyer" maneuverability stats, but that suggestion was decisively shot down.
Turrets:
BH Primary (BS): speed - 810 m/s, damage - 3800 pts, energy consumption - 10k
Order Primary (BS): speed - 800 m/s, damage - 4100 pts, energy consumption - 10.5k
BH Cruiser: speed - 1050 m/s, damage - 2300 pts, energy consumption - 8k
Order Cruiser: speed -1000 m/s, damage - 2500 pts, energy consumption -7.5k
Order BS turrets consume more energy than the BH counterpart, but unleashes 300 pts more damage. I suggest that the BH BS turret lose that 10 m/s speed advantage (which is trivial) and bring them up to 3950 pts. Energy consumption would be increased to 10.5k.
Cruiser turrets seem to be ok to me for the most part. Maybe the BH turret's damage output could be brought up to 2350 - if the 50 m/s speed advantage were removed.
- Mako can`t fight an ossie equally (don`t get started about dreddies again, they are supposed to be meaner, bigger and better)
- BHG turrets are too weak
- Bullhead can`t face its direct opponent: the Geb on equal ground.
- hitbox on other BHG caps may need work.
The mako hit box is bugged, we know. It's getting fixed in the next update, so quit worrying about it.
The mako has two more turrets than the Osiris, that firepower makes up for slightly lower hull strength.
BHG turrets are fine, but face it... you can use other turrets if you want. The BHG seems to have access to most house turrets with minimal RP effort, as well as zoner turrets and even IMG turrets. The order only has our own or Zoner turrets.
The Bullhead is not meant to go up against the Geb. No BC is meant to go up against it. Think of the Geb as more of a light, underpowered battleship than as a battlecruiser - it used to have over 100k less armor, and only had a cruiser shield, and even though it had better firing arcs back then, it still got it's butt kicked by most BC's.
Fact is, the Geb is more than twice as big as any other battlecruiser in the game, and it's larger than the Osiris - a battleship. Because of that drastic size difference, it has a battleship shield and slightly more armor than most Battlecruisers. It only has cruiser turrets, no battleship hardpoints, and trust me... battleship weapons are nothing to scoff at, you should know if you fly any other BC. 1800m/s razors provide the best point defense a battlecruiser can possibly hope for, and the Geb doesnt get those at all.
From what I've seen, the hitboxes on other BHG caps are fine, it's just the mako that needs fixing.
Quote:If that seems too much, then give it more hull. In any case, the Geb will still wipe the mat with a Bullhead, largely due to the Geb having a BS shield. How would the Geb fare without the BS shield? Don't really know, but maybe Tenacity could give us his thoughts on that. The Bullhead turns and strafes lazily, but it is a battlecruiser.
When it was first added, it only had a cruiser shield. I could barely fend off squads of nomad assassin npc's with that shield, due to the excessively large size of my ship, and the fact that cruiser point defense weapons are ineffective on the carrier because of it's large size. Further, in a head on head against any other battlecruiser at that time, chances are I'd lose, because the Geb is a much easier target to hit, with slower turning than the other BC's, and only a slight advantage in firepower.
When the BS shield and higher armor were added, the Geb's hardpoint firing arcs were nerfed. I used to be able to fire the majority of my weapons forward, I no longer can - At most I can fire 11 turrets forward, and 9 in any other direction. Despite the huge number of turrets the Geb has, finding a viable weapon setup for it has been harder than any other ship I've ever flown, capship or otherwise - because if you put enough heavy weapons in one direction to fight enemy capships, you're left with too few weapons to deal with everything else. It's either a mediocre anti-bomber ship, or a very good anti-destroyer/cruiser/battlecruiser ship, never both at the same time.
' Wrote:Hitbox for the Mako just needs testing by adversaries - Dashiell and Megiddo has gracefull volunteered to be gangpressed into doing it, this saturday.
Hitbox'es for other BHG capships (Destroyer and Cruiser) will be fixed after the new Mako hitbox has been okayed by the Dynamic Duo ( Dash and Meg). He gets credit for discussing the hunter fleet as a whole. Please keep it civil here. - Agmn
The current hitbox for the Mako functions in effect as a huge balancing factor against the Mako, since you just need to shoot near the ship for it to register as a hit. Since the hitbox is so large, you can't even strafe away from an incoming shot - A player shooting at the Mako from a distance of 900 m or less, aiming for the targetting cross, WILL hit the Mako from a distance of 900 m or less even, even if the player in the Mako EK's and strafes left/right/up/down, so the shot appears to miss (I.E. mot hitting any part of the texture). That is NOT the case for the Ossie, due to the skinwrapped original Digital Anvil made hitbox.
reasonable and agreeable on this part
i did not say Mako should be nerf, i am saying, stop whining about Mako needs a armour buff that kind of stuff. i am not against Mako getting a good hitbox, i am only against buffing Mako's stats, since i havent use a Mako before, so i said "maybe without a proper hitbox is already balance."
can you fix the hitbox for Osiris too? plz? the Osiris hitbox reserved for those huge FL 1.0 cap turret, and now all the near misses (not as bad as Mako) consider as a hit. (huge, i mean realy huge, it's like twice as the size as the regular turret we have now)
PS: again, plz no pointing fingeres
' Wrote:back in good old days, my osiris pwnd cap 8 rheinland bs.
when this mod started my corsair dread (cap 7) pwned zoner jugg with cap 8
it is not all about armour and you know it best lancer...
but back to topic
why all need to talk when bh have not the best ships? all your smaller ships are better as ships of your opponents. now you will have better caps as your opponents. are really hunters so awesome that they have better ships as one of the best shipbuilders in sirius (corsairs) or better as someone who has the most advantage technology?(order)
why noone from you screamed how easy you can destroy enemy caps back in 4,84?
i have nothing against remaking the mako hitbox. but i am bored from reading 25 new threads every day about how to make BH cap ships better as all others.
in rp, you are just hunters. not house,not military,not police. so noone will share the most advanced technology with you. and you are still thinking that you must have better ships as order and all unlawfulls?...
oorp.
//only because you can no longer pvp all pirates around without destroying yourself?...
why is noone from you screaming how agile is your gs?(also cap ship...)
why is noone from you screaming that it can destroy corsair gb without loosing shield? (corsair gb is THE HEAVIEST gb ingame....)
why is noone from you screaming how good is your bomber compared to its enemies.
and i can continue for hours.
The BHG Bomber is a killing machine,
What the BHG lacks in Capital ships, it makes up for it with bombers.
The caps are good, Look at Apocalypse_now.
He's an Indie BHG BS and he Rapes Corsair Dreadnaughts in his Mako,
Simply because he's flying it the right way.
Mako is not a tank, its a Medium/Light BS thats made for running and firing whilst strafing to dodge enemy fire.
' Wrote:Once a Man who are Selling Ships see an Big Battleship he Ask the Commander from the Battleship that he want to sell this ship, but the Commander wouldnt he say I have an binding to this ship I dont sell this ship for All Money in Sirius so as the Commander and his Crew at Freeport 9 sleeping the Man and his Pirates the buy for much money going into the ship and stole the Battleship Next morning as the Commander and his Crew go to there ship it was not there...
^^^^
The greatest Roleplay ever of an Outcast Battleship being "Stolen"
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