BHG caps discussion

[Jinx]

i had made such a thread some time ago ( over a year ago )...

imagine that ... if no player knew ANYTHING that the character doesn t know...

- no armour stats, no agility stats
- no hitbox
- no weaponstats other than "high, medium or low" ( rough estimates to put them into categories )

ignorance would be bliss. - only the "feeling" of a ship would prevail... - if players knew nothing about hitboxes, few people would notice anything about it. - if people knew nothing about stats like armour and agility.... they couldn t argue about it - but would only have experience speak.

i daresay - if nither order nor BHG players knew any stats of their ships... there d be a lot less bickering about them.

[ that is not meant to stop the discussion - discussion is needed for the progress. - it just describes a state of blissful ignorance that i think would sometimes be beneficial for disco ]


imagine that:

osiris
- armour : light
- powercore : light
- weaponhardpoints : 12
- agility : high
- order turrets dps : medium

mako
- armour : light
- powercore : light
- weaponhardpoints : 14
- agility : high
- BHG turrets dps : low

in very rough terms - they d look similar. - yes, the pure numbers would make them very different and yes - the mako might have a certain disadvantage. - but who can really say they feel the armour difference?

what people argue about are numbers that have very very little effect in the actual gameplay.

no, i m not referring to the allmighty "skill" - the portion of "luck" weighs a lot more than skill. - a good timing when to do what - some say its skill, others might call it intuition etc.




i really wish ID cards would only display the stats like the above. - and i also wish there d not be programs that show every little diget behind the comma of any stat.

people would also argue about it when the difference between ships was something like 0.00002 in the steering torque ( which equals like 1/10000 second faster turning )



again - no, i m not against fighting for equal stats and fairness. - but i do wonder if all that would also be necessary if every stat was totally unknown.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[globalplayer-svk]

dashiel. you know what ships are you guys using on attacks in gamma?
yes, bombers. every attacks that we have there is bobmer squadron, so no change for us corsairs, when all hunters jump in bombers.
and you know why you guys attack inbombers? because before, when it was group of 5 battlecruisers.
we all decided to bomber rape you all. i think lot of you remember how happy you was when yor cap group jumped to gamma and faced 12 corsair bombers...

so whats the point of that post?

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[Tic]

osiris
- armour : light
- powercore : light
- weaponhardpoints : 12
- agility : high
- order turrets dps : medium

mako
- armour : light
- powercore : light
- weaponhardpoints : 14
- agility : high
- BHG turrets dps : low

Just to point out here, Mako and Osiris are not agile. Infact they are the least agile ships in game after the Barge. And again Mako is less agile then the Osiris.

Just because a ship is small, it doesn't mean it's agile.

and Tic, undock your hathor, i come with my gs... dont be so sure that hathor can rape bh gs.

Respond on Skype and lets go.

[Jinx]

@Tic:

i am almost 100% sure that you got the meaning of my post. - but if you insist ... i ll rephrase it....

zoner juggernaut
- armour : very heavy
- powercore : heavy
- weaponhardpoints : 16
- agility : low
- zoner turrets dps : medium

Nomad Battleship
- armour : very heavy
- powercore : heavy
- weaponhardpoints : 15
- agility : low
- nomad turrets dps : very high

i don t need the mako / osiris example - it just fit into the thread - but i can also make the same point by using any other ship. this is not about accurately displaying the ships stats ..... that is how CHARACTERS regard their ship!

you know - characters, not players - a vital difference that many players forget. - a BHG character will believe that their battleship is mostly agile and rather lightly armoured. - he will know the weaponhardpoints and will know from experience that they sacrifice dps for range.

this is NOT about actual stats - its about what a roleplayed character thinks of his ship.

and if that was how stats were displayed without "players" knowing the REAL stats - there d be no real basis for these discussions but pure experience in combat. - right now, i might loose a 1 vs. 1 in a mako vs. an osiris. - and i ll say "no wonder, my ship is worse when it comes to stats... his chances were much higher to win!"

but if i did NOT know the stats - i d try to figure out what i did wrong - and MAYBE i d get to the conclusion ( one day ) that my ship IS worse - but it d take me quite some time to figure out whats actually worse about it.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[n1kodemus]

Topics like this make me think if I should start to ignore the forums completely.
Lately it has been just whining and useless spam.

[Dashiell]

dashiel. you know what ships are you guys using on attacks in gamma?
yes, bombers. every attacks that we have there is bobmer squadron, so no change for us corsairs, when all hunters jump in bombers.
and you know why you guys attack inbombers? because before, when it was group of 5 battlecruisers.
we all decided to bomber rape you all. i think lot of you remember how happy you was when yor cap group jumped to gamma and faced 12 corsair bombers...

so whats the point of that post?

the door swings both ways mate. if hunters raid gamma in caps it`s bad. if they raid in bombers it`s bad. if we don`t raid at all corsairs see little action on our side of the conflict. and it`s bad. want us to raid in starfleas? or not raid at all? fine with me. just don`t get anywhere near Dabadoru with Legates, Ossies and Preafacts then.

you missed my point about enjoyment of the game for both sides. not just grabbing whatever wipes out the enemy`s ships fastest. if we were to play like that, caps might as well be scrapped since they have no advantage over a bomber whatsoever. believe it ot not, but caps are better for rp than fighting.

caps vs caps would be fun, but not the most tactical sttategy. still, pleyers like to fight cap vs cap. so tell me, why shouldn`t they be able to do so with equal chances?

Topics like this make me think if I should start to ignore the forums completely.
Lately it has been just whining and useless spam.

then don`t post this type of remark. contribute to the discussion or don`t contribute in this topic at all.

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[Birdtalon]

Umm Osiris is one of the most Agile Battleships...

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[Athenian]

Arguments based on whoring and ganking? Are you kidding me? If whoring ships and ganking others was against the rules, I doubt if any of us would still be playing. Haven't we discussed this before? Isn't the Mako hitbox getting fixed?

As for all the other ones: any discussion on the BHG ship-line is nigh on impossible, chiefly because we have people believeing that they are forced to deal with what appears to be gangs of medieval warlords that believe the other is vying for its own interests rather than the game in general.

There is residual bad feeling between players involved in the Order/Corsairs/BHG war. And not all of that bad feeling was unwarranted - forum griping led to all manner of changes to particular aspects of gameplay, on some sides more than others - and I've read enough forum flaming about people from faction x, y and z to make me puke blood.

What purpose does this "discussion" serve now, except to frustrate and annoy each other?

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[NonSequitor]

every ship has its dis-advantage, let's face it, not every ship it's perfect, suck it up buddy.
for ex:
Osiris has small size, a little more armour than BHG BS, but it only has 12 turrets and only 10 can fire forward, BHG BS has 14 turrets, but with weaker armour, a slightly weaker gun.

(if you complain about Mako has a armour that's too weak, let's switch the armour stats and turret number of Osiris and Mako, i am going to so happy and alot of Mako captain is gonna whine)
Plz dont whine about the Geb, it has the suckest firing arc in the game (it's not just suck, it's suckke than suck), so it's fair to use a BS shield and heavy armour to compensate it's size, and firing arc

I'm not sure if your response was leveled at me, but if you re-read the text of mine that you quoted, you might notice that I wasn't complaining about anything. Or whining or whatever. I gave my opinions and some suggestions, without trying to bash the "other side".

No one in his right mind is saying that each ship and its counterpart has to be perfectly equal. Ain't gonna happen.

[Tic]

@Jinx

Agility has nothing to do with the size.

Both Zoner Jugg and Nomad BS are more agile then Osiris or Mako, they are bigger so it's harder for them to dodge, but they are more agile.