' Wrote:A fair enough point there Ackarion, though I do not see this as one person pushing their RP onto others but as someone discussing it with others to see how maybe it can be worked in to the game in a fair way.
Maybe it can be, maybe it can't.
As for the pushing of someones RP onto others, well that is what happens when two characters meet in space.
Maybe it is the pirate/ trader engagement, the navy/ smuggler engagement, hell maybe even the merc/ target engagement.
If a faction were to make a commodity exclusive it would not be against the rules to carry it, only against a corporate policy, house law or bounty prerequisite.
Just the same as it is to carry cardamine in house space.
Surely you do not see that as navy forcing their RP onto smugglers?
I agree with you that their should be no more nerfing of independent traders, they have a niche to fill and currently a nice balance between freedom and restrictions.
But is it wrong for an official faction to RP certain laws regarding their products?
Would it be wrong for Outcasts to only let certain groups carry cardamine?
Or for Ageira to have control over gate/ lane parts?
What about for navies to place taxes on carrying certain commodities within their space?
Maybe certain pirate groups to target specific cargoes or targets above others?
In my view, I don't see it as fair.
I understand there is rp and rp interaction. In case pirate and trader. There my interaction, I have a choice as a trader. Run, pay, fight, or rp out of it. As a pirate I can charge, forgive, kill or rp it out. This and the code of how it is conducted is labeled in the id and the heart of what freelancer is.
But for corporation, factions dictating corporations is where I draw the line. There is no choice in this type of game play to the player. Especially for new comers, this would be a nightmare. When I joined, and this type of play was in full force, would have dumped the game 5 months ago. It eventually effects game play mine and others in a negative way and this is the reason why I disagree with it. I understand the questions and the view points and where all opinions, suggestions, and the such are coming from. This type of play, type of manipulation will be counter productive and not a positive move for Freelancer and its environment. This type of game play is taking it a bit too far in regards of rp influence and game interaction that conflicts with what freelancer is.
EDIT: Think about it. In Single player or even as a new player in Pittsburg, and you started out. You see all these commodities, but then when you went to select lets say Consumer Goods, a message came across and stated, "Sorry you are not on friendly terms with this company; they have the license for this". So you went to H-Fuel, and then got the same message. Half way down you finally found one you could pick up and its water and scrapmetal. So really the only choice you have is to join a corporation. FORGET IT. It is not right for this type of abuse to new players and players alike. You don't dictate a player because he is new or not part of a corporation and force them to abide by senior/faction - player/corporation's wishes/requirements. (This value setting is not rp.)
It is Discovery, let kids and adults play at their own pace and meander about at their own will, we have notices in the message blocks for them to review rules; but to introduce faction requirements, company treaties, licenses and can and can't dos for trade to a player will completely kill new opportunities. Really, the line needs to be drawn here at this.
Hey, so here's an update of that. So I talked to Admin, real one this time. Because I thought you were one, but that's my fault. I wasn't informed enough
I love how my respect for someone can melt down in seconds, like mine did for you Nathan ( aka Xoria)
I can't believe you frikkin threatneed us without being an admin, or even having an authority to do such cheap shots. This pissed me off greatly, and I stopped the entire contract deal with ageira just because I didn't want to harm all traders that are doing that route. Because you threatned to lower its profits.
Well guess what, I complied and I listened to you, because, apparently I thought you have a frikkin backbone and something to back up that threat, because, you're the guy that does the trade routes after all. However, it appears you have no authority to do that -AT ALL-.
Their ID allows them to prohibit whoever they want (who's not ageira, dse and universal) to use those parts and drop them. So That part is pretty clear.
Rest of you can suck it, because I'm pissed now, and unlike admins or moderators I can let my emotions guide my decisions, because there's noone to be objective to.
If an admin comes here, with green text, and says that Ageira has no right to enforce that, I will bow down again like a little rat, because I respect authority above all. But for you Nathan, I've got no respect left. You actually used authority you don't posses.
Cheap shot, lower than frikkin deepest sea depth.
So maybe some of you still aren't clear here, I'm talking about Ageira's right to demand gate / lane parts to be dropped from any ship that's not supposed to carry it. The whole question was about issuing the Contracts that would allow non Ageira ships to carry the gate / lane parts.
Quorg as Ageira leader decided to charge 50millions for the contracts as that.
Xoria decided to "I'll make sure that those commodities are not profitable enough to transport to attract interest from people who don't have a dedicated interest in transporting it." - Do this, without any rights. I am not throwing a hissy fit for no reason.
I understand there is rp and rp interaction. In case pirate and trader. There my interaction, I have a choice as a trader. Run, pay, fight, or rp out of it. As a pirate I can charge, forgive, kill or rp it out. This and the code of how it is conducted is labeled in the id and the heart of what freelancer is.
But for corporation, factions dictating corporations is where I draw the line. There is no choice in this type of game play to the player. Especially for new comers, this would be a nightmare. When I joined, and this type of play was in full force, would have dumped the game 5 months ago. It eventually effects game play mine and others in a negative way and this is the reason why I disagree with it. I understand the questions and the view points and where all opinions, suggestions, and the such are coming from. This type of play, type of manipulation will be counter productive and not a positive move for Freelancer and its environment. This type of game play is taking it a bit too far in regards of rp influence and game interaction that conflicts with what freelancer is.
EDIT: Think about it. In Single player or even as a new player in Pittsburg, and you started out. You see all these commodities, but then when you went to select lets say Consumer Goods, a message came across and stated, "Sorry you are not on friendly terms with this company; they have the license for this". So you went to H-Fuel, and then got the same message. Half way down you finally found one you could pick up and its water and scrapmetal. So really the only choice you have is to join a corporation. FORGET IT. It is not right for this type of abuse to new players and players alike. You don't dictate a player because he is new or not part of a corporation and force them to abide by senior/faction - player/corporation's wishes/requirements. (This value setting is not rp.)
It is Discovery, let kids and adults play at their own pace and meander about at their own will, we have notices in the message blocks for them to review rules; but to introduce faction requirements, company treaties, licenses and can and can't dos for trade to a player will completely kill new opportunities. Really, the line needs to be drawn here at this.
Well there are some very good comments to consider there.
If every corporation claimed a commodity then there would be fewer choices for newer characters.
Of course it could be said that there is a safe level limit for a reason.
Or that the cost of licenses would be determined based on ship size to be affordable for all.
Or even that you would have to be caught for it to matter in the first place.
But something to consider is that if traders can not place controls on their respective commodities then it just remains in the power of the various pirate factions that can pirate anyone they don't want carrying their commodity, the Rheinland, Kusari and Bretonian police, the LPI and LSF as well as the Rheinland, Kusari, Bretonian and Libertonian navies.
A total of 15 different factions by my count that are in a position to affect whether you may carry a commodity they deem as theirs.
That of course is not counting Ageira's hold on Gate/Lane parts but I am still waiting to see if they will be allowed to have any say on those.
So that is 16 factions and it does not seem to be getting in the way yet.
Do not get me wrong, it will not affect me if this is shot down as it does not really affect me in game.
I just see some good points in this and feel that the more it is discussed the better and more defined everybodies rolls will be.
As was stated before Ageira has moved forward with this as it was stated in their ID and everybody was happy with it, now it must be worked out if they are still in their right to do this and why they are the only corporation in Sirius to have this control.
Edit: did not see the last message above come up in time.:laugh:
' Wrote:I gave up on entire thing because i thought it was admin's final threat.
Now since we're back on horse i think Ageira deserves this right.
woot.
Anyways, in spite of the hiccup I still see where Xoria's coming from- independent traders have it hard enough, and efforts to nerf them further would most likely be counter-productive.
However, transporting Gate/Lane Parts is an exception to the norm, because it represents a long-standing, in-RP corporate monopoly in which intellectual property rights are fiercely defended. I wouldn't push for the Independent Trader ID to ban trading it, because that would be an OORP solution to an in-RP problem. But that doesn't mean that we can't hire people to enforce it in the game.
I don't think anyone was talking about making it against server rules for anyone to carry anything.
I feel it was more about whether factions could impose in RP consequences.
Thing that ticked me off is that he came with no solutions, said that all my things are wrong and then used a position that he has to enforce his opinion, and he's not an admin.
I believe Ageira has a right to deny anyone trading route of that commodity until they do waht ageira wants. I believe that by doing so Ageira is responsible to how others react to it, wether by bountying ageira ships or something else.
But I think the worst thing we can do is to whine hard on this, while capital : fighter ratio in sky is 50/50.
yeah, and traders have it hard. If they "have it hard" how come some people make it and others don't?
I agree with Ackarion here, I am a new player. If I want to use Freelancer Companion and just run around and find a profitable route and just jump around the game learning the ropes meeting new people and generally having then thats good.
But if I joined and like he said I tried to select a resource to trade and it kept saying you can't have that or if I was transporting something and someone came to me and said do you have a licence and I respond with a no? Guess what I just lost my investment and as a new player I could have invested all of my money in that trade.
I do not see that being good for anyone, and besides no one faction has total control over any resources other than Ageira. Yes some like produce more from an RP stand point or produce "higher quality" but that shouldn't stop me from trading it. Also as a new player seeing all these IDs and not knowing picking Freelancer is a good option because you can dabble in pretty much all aspects of the game without new characters joining factions etc etc.
This game is Freelancer, not Corplancer. Start restricting independent traders and you will see less traders. There is a reason many people don't join trading corporations; it's more appealing to be your own boss than a cog in a corporate wheel.
My opinion is outright no.
Another thing: why would a corporation (besides Ageira, but that's something from vanilla and therefore shouldn't be altered) really care if USI or some independent trader buys their product? They still get the profits. And last time I checked, the corporation doesn't get in trouble if their product is used in an illegal manner, the transporter/end user does.
Actually corporations other than Ageira shouldn't prohibit it unless there's some strict thing.
Like Bretonian corporations stopping Kusari affiliated traders from getting their things, or some Liberty corporation like synth foods stopping ageira from taking some things from their bases. Those things happen more than you'ld like to see.
For new players: If you like to run with freelancer companion around looking for highest profit in your ship, you're very much not contributing to the roleplay. We all did that at some point, but this is Discovery RP, you shouldn't use freelancer companion and enjoy your "neutrality"
More than few corporations offer starting money for fresh traders, you're more than welcome to actually join a trade run with Kishiro. Just join a trade run, not a corporation. The ammount of cash that two traders in convoy earn in one route is enough to get you a 2000 cargo kusari transporter, if you decide to join us. One run. 20 minutes. Talking with other players, learning the ropes, encountering a pirate. Surviving, getting a new ship!
If that's not encouraging then I don't know what is.
For those that say this is Freelancer not Corp/Cap/Whatever lancer, that's an washed up argument. Freelancer is far from the game good people at Discovery have made it to be. It has it's own laws, it's own customs already, hell it has Coalition, new ships, new models, new physics, missiles, everything. Its far from Microsoft's Freelancer. If your argument is that you want to be FREE as Trent was in his game, then you're forgetting that in order for him to be a freelancer society had to exist.
I wish that one day a player can log on into this game, chose a freelancer ID and have an adventure just like Trent had, but with real players not NPCs. And trust me, that can really happen.
Also: You can't see less traders. That's just not possible. You can see less traders in certain area, but not in Sirius as whole.
So what, Omegas are bit empty now it seems. Just immagine if Kusari had their unlawfuls as strong or numerous as Omegas have, traders would move to Liberty, but liberty already has numerous illegals, so they'ld move to bretonia or Rheinland. When those houses grow in number of unlawfuls do you think traders would just dissapear? No. They'ld finally have to cope with their problems.
Its easy to say - this is a game, it should be fun. But isn't challenge fun? Are you one of those people that when they get stuck instantly go online and look for cheats rather than advices on how to do it without cheating?
i've seen few of those, main one is my brother. He got a 3d puzzle of a FIFA soccer ball, small one, nothing major. He was superexcited and called his friend to actually assemble it for him. He gets a fresh copy of windows every 2 months, because he's refusing to limit the ammount of junk he places on his computer. It breaks over my back, and that could be the reason I dislike someone "going with the flow" because there's always someone else to fight your battles, or some other place to look for help. How about sticking up, hiring those escorts, making it bloody hard for pirates to exist?
I bet that, if all active corporations in liberty actually bonded together and paid mercenaries cash to keep the liberty clear, the pirates would have hell of a job. Really hell of a job.