Ok I should chime in my opinion or thoughts, I should say. Been at this GMG stuff for quite awhile and the topic of GMG's monopoly of the H-fuel/Plutonium industry and it's distribution contract has popped up in debate in our Skype chat since we first created GMG|. Myself and the original founders have talked about it, we and the old Kishiro have talked about it, myself and the current new set of GM's have talked about it again, and more recently the topic has been brought up as a result of a the Kishiro faction and GMG|'s current negotiations with the Rheinland Chancelor, RepEx and the RM Admiral at the moment.
The conclusion always inevitably ends up the same each time. We can RP with great fanfare our stranglehold hold of the H-fuel industry, and we do with great ethusiasm I may add, but when it comes down to the idea of enforcing this RP we find that we just can not do it. The thing is, if GMG| were to start attacking all traders who weren't carrying the right ID the damage to the server would be greater than most will expect. Almost all activity on this server begins with that single trader ship plying his trade. If that ship isn't doing his thing than you'll notice many other occupations can't do there thing either and we get left with what we call dead zones. Trade coming to and from Okinawa leads to many areas of Sirius through many profitable routes. Myself alone have spent hundreds of millions to pirates who in turn get caught and fined/destroyed by the lawfuls in the game for that purpose. So we let them and view them as the tiny minority compared to the ocean of NPCs that do larger legwork than us players. I should repeat; we still do RP with great fanfare that we have a monpoly over it anyways.
On that note, yes we know of the diplomatic channel you've made to GMG| confirming the granted exclusive distribution rights Kishiro has with GMG fuel. We are getting to that and viewing your application with much anitcipation. If negotiations continue as they are going between GMG and Rheinland than our contract is more than twice it's size since Kishiro last signed it. Yes, as one of your posts pointed, after months and months of incidents that lead to talks and now official negotiations it looks like GMG| and RepEx will be signing a contract involving distribution rights for H-fuel and Plutonium to RHeinland/Omegas/Bretonia and we will be presenting H-fuel and PLutonium distribution rights to Kishiro for Kusari/Libarty/Taus. Note that this is a forum RP thing and agreements amongst factions. When it comes down to actually in-game enforcing we can't actually enforce it. We just want to drive the NPC story is all and be able to brag that we will soon have reached our goal of being sole provider to all four houses and drown out the competition.
My suggestion is to do it as we do it. Still make the RP proclamations. RP it on the forums when we have the signing ceremonies and such (you'll be official soon with a touch more work and recruitment), make the RP commodity run as your routine one and shrug off the indies. Just think of them as the small helpers that represent that little fraction of "side-deals".
Why do you think the devs put the extreme cargo limitations on them? You still do make a huge profit doing whatever route you want, though. Or just get a slaver Id and a 5k, nothing on that ID says you cant.
Dont try to compare a SPACE game set in ~3500 A.D. ( if my failure math is correct ) to real life. Its nothing like it. Its IMPOSSIBLE. Its just like comparing WW2 to the Bombers vs. Cap bull. Doesnt work. If that was true, we'd have bombers flying into caps and them dying in one hit.
Ivan, I have respect for you, but honestly this thread does reek of whine.
Indie Traders are already limited. They cannot use huge transports like Corp Traders can. They don't always have the ability to high escorts (You know, because they aren't always around). They don't usually have the benefit of agreements like Corps do with Pirates or other groups.
Lets not forget that a Indie in a BWT isn't just some random person. He himself is a millionaire. He is rich. He isn't your standard citizen. He had the money to purchase a transport and the ability to operate it. He/she is in essence a small company. That means this is a completely ignorant statement:
Quote:You don't get to ship massive containers of goods from South Africa to the UK without special clearances, taxes, licenses etc.
No kidding? This has no bearing at all. A indie trader probably has as much money if not more than some of the said shipping companies. Guess what? Those companies started somewhere, perhaps they had one ship? Much like an indie trader?
As for these:
Quote:* He belongs nowhere, aka he's not in faction.
* He doesn't have to give a portion of his money to his corporation (either via donations or some weekly cut)
* He doesn't have to answer to anyone regarding his roleplay. (total freedom!)
* He's free to make contacts based on his own experience
* He's free to dock on most bases and make runs that are profitable
* Hence, Indie or Freelancer. That's kinda the point.
* Not all Corps have that condition. Please don't act like they do.
* That is largely how companies start. Are you suggesting we kill off all the small businessmen? Thus preventing new businesses from being started?
* That is one of the reasons people are Indie/FL, to make money.
Quote:* They can dock anywhere.
* They can purchase every commodity
* Basically no matter where they trade, they are neutral to people. Neutral isn't hostile necessarily
*They are indie's or FL's. Why wouldn't they be able to dock anywhere? They have no loyalties. The only reason a base would turn them away is if they have been rude, are carrying contraband that the base has laws against, etc etc.
* I wouldn't say neutral. Try hauling Artifacts or Caradmine into Liberty as an Indie/FL. I highly down Mr. LN is going to say you are neutral. I also bet he logs your info and ensures to check you every time he sees you.
Quote:Now, I'm not prone to placing this situation in the real world, but someone will surely mention freelancer contractors or, people with their own trucks / hauling vehicles and how they're trading things around.
Well, let me tell you something from start, you can't simply go somewhere and take the things, ship them off elsewhere and expect people to buy them from there. You have to sign a contract with the exporters in question. Why? Well, here's the simplest answer.
Indy trader (A) decides to buy 16 tons of cement and decides to haul it off to construction site (QS)
He didn't sign anything and he's off towards the (QS).
(QS) on other hand has no clue that (A) is coming and orders 16 tons of cement from the exporter (E).
Why would he accept (A) now when he ordered (E's) cargo, that's guaranteed and quality approved.
This is a game. Do not compare it to the real world. If you want everyone to make contracts, I want there to be a reactive trade system. Meaning if to many of said item is sold in a certain time frame, the price hits the bottom of the bucket. I highly doubt anyone wants that. (Me included.)
Quote:Having an corporate ID makes you a bigger target. Ageira to hackers, Kishiro to xenos, Kruger to hessians etc. It increases Roleplay, it gives it's drawbacks and advantages. You still remain faction-less and you don't enjoy full benefits.
That has always been the case. You usually have a better ability to meet the pirates needs, since you know, you work for a company that itself has millions if not billions. If you can't pay the pirate, your company can. That isn't always true for a Indie/FL so it may be a waste of time to hold them hostage/pirate them. Simple logic really.
Honsetly, you had to have know you comparing a game to real life would not take well. You also had to have known that asking why it is that indie/FL players don't RP contracts and asking if it should be forced on them would end badly.
I'll say it one last time. This isn't real life; don't compare the two. FL/Indie traders are millionaires, they can afford the license/taxes/fees because they are in essence a small business. How do you think the Corps got their starts? (Some of them anyways)
Does it suck that indie/FL trade routes are usually better? Sure. That means Corp trade routes need fixing. Don't mess with FL/indie's, they are balanced as is.
Ivan, don't take this as me flaming you. These are my opinions on the matter. If you disagree, then agree to disagree. I don't want to argue with you about it. Neither of us have anything to gain from doing so.
' Wrote:no ships over 3300 cargo or something would do the trick? Because, think about it. Youre average Freelancer doesn't go around with 100's of millions in his pocket.
They already have a cargo limit of 3800. If you cut that nobody will use the BWT and others. Also, most freelancers do go around with 100's of millions...at least the ones I've met.
So basically, just because there's more of independent traders aka people that DON'T want to participate in corporation and thus fly a ship with smaller cargo hold, we have to cripple some corporations.
So ageira, even though their ID says so, shouldn't have the right to actually monitor who distributes their unique goods.
Since we can't even move from this point on, lets not even go into GMG - Kishiro contract and ask why is it that we can't roleplay one of the most awesome corporation combats in space. The Samura - Kishiro contracts.
Why wouldn't it be visible that GMG have exclusive with Kishiro and, somehow I can't get it into my head that a faction like Ageira can't hire mercs, but for example, FA can place a bounty on all foreign trade ships. Let's not even go into NovaPG or some even more restricting faction.
As for Kishiro and GMG, we'll stay in good relations, and I really wonder how will RepEx enforce this exclusive contract they have bargained for in Rheinland. Will Repex pay for the exclusive? They really should, but then after they can't really enforce it? Wow.
What's happening here is basically that 10 players from Ageira, and another 15-20 people that are in corps that will surely pay 50mil to license are getting stopped in roleplay because independent traders believe that Ageira has no right to actually do what their ID says. And not only that but threats flew off about crippling the commodity for everyone. Ha.
Let me say that very small amount of commodities can be actually controlled. You can't exactly control Neon or things that sell from more places than one. Mercenary or faction that's enforcing it can't be sure that they bought the thing from their base, when there's more bases to buy it from.
For those that say Trent was an trader, that was back in the days when dromedary was the biggest trade ship, and corporations had megatrains. How come we're not doing that? :/
just kidding ofc, that'ld be hardcore and we don't want to do that, ever. But seriously, if you're soooo hot about ageira's gate parts, why don't you get ageira ID?
I'm also not for cutting down their cargo hold limit further. It's more than fine. I'm just kinda sad that we can't roleplay out some thing that didn't just boom into our heads, but it's enforced in one case by lore and id and in other case numerous lore cards.
Why couldn't we roleplay out Samura Kishiro being rivals but further it down from paper. Make people that play either Samura or Kishiro realize how can house rivals be sneaky. Why can't we get a chance to form some deals and kick each other in the nuts?
Quote:Why couldn't we roleplay out Samura Kishiro being rivals but further it down from paper. Make people that play either Samura or Kishiro realize how can house rivals be sneaky. Why can't we get a chance to form some deals and kick each other in the nuts?
Who is saying you can't correctly RP companies that are rivals? How does that have anything to do with this topic? (Should independents have it harder?) Or has this topic strayed from the orginal topic?
Quote:et me ask you something? do you even trade in gate / lane parts?
did you even do your homework?
do you even know how many commodities are exclusive. I think that Ageira's one is the most exclusive legal commodity. Something like planetform's gaian wildlife or corsair's artifacts.
if you're trading rest of them, you dont even have to concern this.
Now honestly, do you even trade in gate / lane parts?
This has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this thread. I mentioned Ageira because I remembered it from vanilla Freelancer.
As to your question, no I don't trade gate/lane parts because I simply don't. There's no special reason.
Like I said before, if you want people to start joining trading corps, make them more enticing. Don't beat down an already beaten down sector of the gaming community.