' Wrote:Bowex runs off the HC system as well. I guess most factions do. I'm personally happy that each group is considered to be the group's possession and not the leader's. Although this can have strange side-effects when you factor in some of the generic ID factions.
Case in point, the Jokers and Rorry's Renegades. Both of these factions are cults of personality focused on the leader (on an inRP and OORP level, it seems from the outside) and without that leader, they tend to fold. Then again, if the members want to try and continue after their centrepiece has folded, that's their prerogative, I suppose.
I think that the HC model is the only one that really works, I mean we all have times where we must make ourselves scarce.
If a faction has only a leader and they go missing, the entire faction is in trouble, I learned this during my early days of making factions, I have had two fold due to this problem.
At the very least you need a second in command who you can trust and who does not mind taking over all the duties of leading without a second thought.
This is what I like about Samura, I think we would remain fine if even three directors disappeared.
' Wrote:I know I've said this before, but, really.. This should change. I mean come on. How could every single faction in disco NOT have attempted coups or successful coups every single moment? (didn't mean that literally. by 'every single' i mean 'most')
I believe that in InRP coup is fine and will usually have the blessing of all members.
Where as an OoRP coup would be a very different affair that can only have an ugly ending.:ylove:
' Wrote:How come you gave away IC's faction CAP8 to FIST, despite stating that they weren't a part of the faction, then? Surely that should have stayed within the group as their property?
' Wrote:IC got richer by exactly 800M after selling CAU8 from FIST armory ship.
CAU8 was sold to Cody, for 800M.
When I quit IC, I distributed all the funds I had access to like this:
FIST| Yacht with 333M, 4 Repair Ships ( I think ) and 4 personal Wasupus with code weapons to new FIST leader.
333M to each IC| member.
The money that was left was still on IC| bank accounts and handed to Avalanche
Do you want to throw another groundless accusation towards me, when I actually split the money to the FACTION, as I always imagined what the faction is?
' Wrote:I believe that in InRP coup is fine and will usually have the blessing of all members.
Where as an OoRP coup would be a very different affair that can only have an ugly ending.:ylove:
I've been involved in both. Yea, in-rp is usually agreed on by the higher-ups and the members just sorta go with the flow and enjoy the RP. Though it's the oorp bit that.. really.. really.. sucks. That one definitely led to an ugly ending. -Ridiculously- ugly.
As much as I just want to simply blow this off, I for one will say that no faction is treated as property.
I am very proud to have the current members of the faction I lead, despite all the complaining one witnesses between two members, they know who they are.
In such the faction is run by everyone. All of them get to speak. All of them get to forum RP if they wish. They all contribute to the better of the faction.
To say a faction is property is flatout, ludicrous.
-"If we do not learn at least one thing a day....Our minds turn to stupor"- Kyle Sparrgrove -2005
' Wrote:It all comes down to; Was this a unilateral decision by the faction leader, or did it have support of members in the faction?
Well... =CR= comes to mind, actually.
The HighCom just went "gg guys, let's end it now", while many faction members (including one from HighCom, afaik) weren't... too happy about this decision.
Not trying to bring discussion about =CR= here, since new faction was already started - but such things are indeed possible on Disco, where 3-4 people will end the faction, even the one with such long history. (2006 it was, afaik?). Regular members were just shown the fact, afaik there was no discussion about disbandment prior to it in non HC chat. edit: at least I didn't see it, as a member of =CR= at a time. basically, they just told people - it's over.
To me, factions are owned by its memberships. Leaders are there to make sure their members do what they say they are going to do and as Markus pointed out too, to take the flak. (among other tthings)
The important thing, in my opinion, the Leader works for all its members as a slave. (Not literally)
For the most part I say live or fold is up to the membership. How the faction is structured to me determines whether it's property or not.
An example of property for me would be Sea Spirit. I designed and built the company and I chose to move it to an inRP base rather than in-game one after doing investment merger RP with three other factions. Members became members of those other factions and the Sea Spirit channel became a place for friends to hang out - albeit rather unused in favor of my personal friends channel. Thing is, for that faction, I own it lock, stock, and barrel. It's not the same with others, however.
In one group a former leader decided he wanted to be leader again and to stage a coup after an OORP personal relationship breakup. They instigated forum RP to try and oust the lead, but it failed. As the song goes, breaking up is hard to do, but attempting something inRP because of OORP feelings about a break up is lame.
ALG has had 2 leads and 3 or 4 2iC's in the last year. We have activity but few actually interested in a leadership position. I run it with an HC as an advisory board and should I leave it will be in their hands. We've discussed dissolving the faction on numerous occasions but activity has been okay. Our current 2iC is being groomed for the lead postion and we'll probably me making that changeover soon .
Mollys run via the lead and the 2IC. We have an HC council staffed with veteran members including 3 former faction leads acting as advisors. The history of the faction combined with the structure is that I don't consider myself as having authority to dissolve it if I wanted to try (which I don't). We have over 30 shared ships, some dating back two official factions ago - not including the banks and armories. Every single veteran player in the Mollys has poured time, energy, credits and ships into creating it to get to offiical status and maintaining it. No one person can dissolve it without the membership agreeing to it. As the leader all it means is it's up to me to make the tough calls and to force myself to do forumlancing. :) The membership owns [M]- not me.
In regards to Kishiro the dissolution and reinstatement of official status is somewhat involved. The 2IC had left the faction some time before the faction was dissolved. Activity was low and the membership was polled prior to Timo's announcement that the faction was dissolving. Several members went to Samura. As 3IC (and then 2IC after the prevoius 2IC left) I saw the whole thing from the inside. Afterwards, the ex-2IC created a new Kishiro faction using the same tag. Until recently it had considered itself to be an unofficial faction. It was when an inquiry as to going for official status again that it was informed that the status had remained unchanged in the admin team's eyes. The current Kishiro has only a couple of members from the former Kishiro but it's trying to increase it's activity. Most of the members are new but are some good people.
It's my personal opinion that what happened with IDF pretty much sucks. Former leader returned to disco and asked the current leader to step down - which he did. The faction lead decided to build a base, and then a second base, and some members got tired of the grind and/or had exams so their activity dropped some. There were also some issues with the partners in one base using the passwords to muck around with the sales/purchasing so that it was daily deteriorating from lack of crew and other things. Fast forward a bit and the faction lead ragequit Disco (again). This time, however, he gave the master passwords to the bases to another faction. He also gave away the faction's barge and bank, among other things. The faction was locked out ofthe bases and could only sit back and watch as the modules were destroyed using the admin commands and the bases were deliberately destroyed. All in all, that's pretty low. That same leader had also determined that there should be no 2IC nor any HC so that he would be the only person in charge.
As a former =CR= member I'm not aware of the membership being asked about dissolving it. I wasn't in the faction at the time but in talking with members, it was purely a leadership and HC decision and the members left to suffer. While never a member of the Omicroners, I've been led to believe it was similar there. The fact that many of the former Omicroner members immediately formed a new faction (of which I was a part for a short time) tells me that the membership was wanting the faction to remain.
Thus, how the faction is structured seems to bear a lot of weight in regards to whether the membership has a say or not. Additionally the winds of time bring change. What may have been acceptable for a faction lead alone a year ago to determine may not be acceptable today, yet might be acceptable a month from now. Personally, while writing this I've come to think that a faction should have it posted what the guidelines are for its structure and who is and isn't permitted to attempt to dissolve it.