So the Junker Guard is now Area restricted

[Harvox]

Hi.

First of all i want to say, that normally i'm looking forward to every mod update because i think, every update makes this great server and mod even better.

Normally...

I just downloaded the modupdate and quickly checked some changes. And now i see my "new" Junker Guard ID.

"Cannot operate outside of Gallia, the Tau systems, Omicron 80 and Omicron Alpha, Bretonia and Kusari"
(First of all, i don't understand why we should operate in Kusari, as Kusari normally is red to Junker Guard...but that's not my point)
Is that now what i've worked for? I got my Guard ID for my Salvager for showing i actually want to act as a Junker and really enjoy doing Junker Rpg (and not like some others purchasing the Salvager with normal Junker ID (which is still okay of course), or even Freelancer ID, just to get the ship). And it was not to easy to get this Guard ID, as you can imagine. I've never really felt like a Gallian or like i got a close relationship to Gallia, but indeed i felt as a Junker and i wanted to show that. That's what i bought the Guard ID. And i also wanted to stay more or less independant and fly through whole sirius with my Salvager.

So now, it looks like i have to stick back to the Normal Junker ID. Excellent...some hours of work wasted, as well as my effort to do good Rpg as a Junker (Guard). And not as an "Gallia Guard" or whatever this is meant to be now.

What do you (and especially other Junkers) think about these new changes? I myself will now stay inactive with my Junkerguard Salvager for about a week (otherwise i'd break rules with flying around. And of course, as much as i protest against this new rule, i wont break it as long as it is official) and just hope, the Junker Guard ID will be remade again. This just can't be it in my eyes...

[kikatsu]

woah, what?

really?

Duuurrrr.....
Bugger.
Right now the Corvus is Guard ID'd and Tagged...I may have to swap her out for a Pilgrim class or something and get the normal ID


I would like to know why the Junker Guard ID was changed...since, well, the Junker Guard system is in, well Liberty, which is not listed by the system restrictions here

[Rudo]

Let me inform you right now that you don't need the Guard ID to use the Salvager. You never did.

It says 'Salvager' explicitly on the ID, yes. That's a leftover from previous incarnations of the ID where the Guard weren't generally intended to fly transports, but some such as myself pushed to get the Salvager on the ID so guard pilots could fly it.

The Salvager is a transport like any other transport that isn't a liner. It's not skirting any rules to have one as a plain Junker IDed sort. And the Gallic Junkers need their own ID; this was the way to go about it that involved the least amount of work for the developers. Saving the developers time is key to getting things done, as Discovery is a big mod with an ambitious, demanding playerbase.

As for Cruisers and up, maybe just ask in the special request to have it as plain old Junker ID.

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[Harvox]

Let me inform you right now that you don't need the Guard ID to use the Salvager. You never did.

It says 'Salvager' explicitly on the ID, yes. That's a leftover from previous incarnations of the ID where the Guard weren't generally intended to fly transports, but some such as myself pushed to get the Salvager on the ID so guard pilots could fly it.

The Salvager is a transport like any other transport that isn't a liner. It's not skirting any rules to have one as a plain Junker IDed sort. And the Gallic Junkers need their own ID; this was the way to go about it that involved the least amount of work for the developers. Saving the developers time is key to getting things done, as Discovery is a big mod with an ambitious, demanding playerbase.

As for Cruisers and up, maybe just ask in the special request to have it as plain old Junker ID.

I wrote in my text, flying Salvager with Junker ID is okay of course. I never said this would be anyhow against the rules. Still i think for flying the Junkers "Flagship" it is a sign of good rpg to get not only the normal Junker, but the Guard ID.
Also the description of the Salvager says, it is never seen outside of the hand of junkers. Maybe this is not a clear and binding rule, but still i see this as a clear sign that they want you to be a Junker if you want to fly that ship and don't want to totally spoil rpg...Still i see some Salvagers with Freelancer ID around using it just as a powertrading vessel. (And it looks like they are the "winners" in that Situation and me, who worked hard for it's Guard ID is now the one with a problem. I cannot believe that this is the way it was wanted...)

Also i don't see a reason why Gallic junkers need an own ID and even if they do, i neither see a reason why the Guard ID has to be it now.

[kikatsu]

Still

The issue exists that a Junker Guard ship is not allowed to get near the Junker Guard System with this ID

(Said system being in Liberty...not listed on the approved fly zones)

[Ash]

It does seem quite poorly thought out. Perhaps a bit more planning was needed. Maybe the Admins are happy with it this way, because it may be leading up to a particular event in the future. Look at the council and GRN, they had to put up with a load of bogus rules before they could do anything fun. But they seem to be blooming alot more now.

I say wait, the admins don't make things unfair for no particular reason.

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[Rudo]

I wrote in my text, flying Salvager with Junker ID is okay of course. I never said this would be anyhow against the rules. Still i think for flying the Junkers "Flagship" it is a sign of good rpg to get not only the normal Junker, but the Guard ID.
Also the description of the Salvager says, it is never seen outside of the hand of junkers. Maybe this is not a clear and binding rule, but still i see this as a clear sign that they want you to be a Junker if you want to fly that ship and don't want to totally spoil rpg...Still i see some Salvagers with Freelancer ID around using it just as a powertrading vessel. (And it looks like they are the "winners" in that Situation and me, who worked hard for it's Guard ID is now the one with a problem. I cannot believe that this is the way it was wanted...)

Also i don't see a reason why Gallic junkers need an own ID and even if they do, i neither see a reason why the Guard ID has to be it now.

That's your opinion. I'm honestly against the entire concept of 'Guard' factions. No Junker is more or less of a Junker than any other Junker. Just like no Navy is more Navy than other Navy. If you're a Junker, you're a Junker. If you're in the Navy, you're in the Navy. The whole idea of Guard IDs was to restrict Cruisers and Battleships to players who had earned the reputation and hopefully learned the RP in the extra time it took to earn that rep. It has failed at this, unfortunately. And to top it off, the Junkers don't even have cruisers or battleships. So there really was no point to the Junker Guard ID in terms of the game mechanics, aside from the players who wanted that extra bit of effort to show.

I'm sorry it worked out that way for you, if you think the time was wasted.

There's been talk for a long time regarding making a Gallic Junker ID. I was the one that proposed the Guard ID to save the devs some time creating a new ID to just get that off the plate; this was mostly to give them time to work on important things like mining fields that don't trigger the cheat detection, blowing up your ship with your unmounted battle razors on it as a result.

And just maybe so that they could go outside and not feel a bit guilty over not working on a game that nobody here pays a cent for if they don't want to.



As for Freelancers in Salvage Frigates, they run a very high risk of being shot down by Junkers who see them. That's very different from standard Junker ID'd players using them.

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[Harvox]

Still i don't understand why the Gallic Junkers need an id for their own. Nothing stops a normal Junker to stay in Gallia as long as he wants.

But why was the Guard ID converted to something new then? The players who had the Guard ID before (and were happy with it and did good rpg) are in trouble now.

And i think, there IS a difference between Guard and nonguard. A normal Junker cares more about his private stuff and would not mind fleeing from a fight where is friend is about to die to save his own life. (I experienced that ingame as well) He doesn't care that much about Junker politics and is more or less a not so important Member of the Junker Guild. A Junker Guard cares more about the Junkers in general and protects them if anywhere possible. He's from the "hard core" of the Guild and plays a more important role for them.
At least that's my understanding of Junkers, and Junker Guard.

[Rudo]

Still i don't understand why the Gallic Junkers need an id for their own. Nothing stops a normal Junker to stay in Gallia as long as he wants.

But why was the Guard ID converted to something new then? The players who had the Guard ID before (and were happy with it and did good rpg) are in trouble now.

And i think, there IS a difference between Guard and nonguard. A normal Junker cares more about his private stuff and would not mind fleeing from a fight where is friend is about to die to save his own life. (I experienced that ingame as well) He doesn't care that much about Junker politics and is more or less a not so important Member of the Junker Guild. A Junker Guard cares more about the Junkers in general and protects them if anywhere possible. He's from the "hard core" of the Guild and plays a more important role for them.
At least that's my understanding of Junkers, and Junker Guard.

In general RP, all Junkers should step up and save other Junkers from whatever trouble they find themselves in. That would be the ideal RP. Sadly this is rarely the case. Reality is that this trouble often comes from things such having a cargo hold full of cardamine in Manhattan orbit or something else that is entirely the fault of the Junker being attacked, and stepping in would only invite terrible things in the long run that would jeopardize more.

Also, there are many Junkers, with or without the Guard ID, that generally just don't care about RP in general. They just go with the ID because they think it will get them out of being pirated. It gets hard to tell the difference between the real RPers and those that scream "IM NEUTRAL" in system chat while Xenos shoot them down. It's a common powertrading ID, and you're advised not to base your RP off the actions of the masses of people who treat this server like World of Warcraft where you need to get the shiniest toys.

There really should be zero difference in RP between a Junker and a "Junker Guard". Differences between individual Junkers? Sure. But the only truly different Junkers are those that were hidden from the rest of the population for hundreds of years; the Gallics.

It's for that reason that I suggested the ID be switched over instead of going through the time and effort of making a new one. There are too few devs to do too much work on this game, any means of saving them trouble should be a priority.

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[AJBeast]

The Junker Guard ID has been bugger up, that is true. I didn't really notice the area restrictions last time ( was too busy ranting about us not being able to use the RPC, which is the only capital ship we had access to), but now that I look at them, I feel the need to say ...WTF?. What does it even mean? We can have Junker guards in Malta but not in Crete? There is no Junker Guard in Rheinland/Liberty?

Now where is that ID feedback thread...