1. Battleship turrets - why oh why again another thread about the same idea. So that people post same things in all of them and it's impossible to follow?
2. Removing mk I fighters etc - no idea at all why we are talking about it in "Capital Ship Rebalancing Proposal". There do not "need" to be removed no matter what. In worst case even when we have all fighter guns in 1 class they can still have low enough powercore that mounting the "high level" guns will be pointless.
now
Cruiser and mostly Battlecruisers - the only real purpose of this thread?
Cruisers
There's no big difference between "light" and "heavy" cruisers. If you compare BHG Dessie with Corsair Cruiser, it's about half the size. That's something else than Osiris vs Rheinland BS where the size difference is like 1:20.
=> the are no big issues with those mounting same weapons.
Light Cruisers - can strafe from SN over 400-500m range, strafe from BS primaries from some ~2k range
Heavy Cruisers - strafe from sn from 600-700m range, from BS primaries from ~2.5k
Solaris is usable for defense on both types, mortar/pulses for BS bombardment as well. Cruiser primaries are not usable for fighting vs BS on either type and are not meant to. Cruiser primaries are meant vs GBs and other Cruisers.
Against gunboats light and heavy cruisers are actually very equal in performance. The light ones don't get so many hits, but don't dish out so much damage either, heavy ones take hits, but have enough armor and firepower that in the end the GB dies about as fast as vs light cruiser.
Battlecruisers
' Wrote:Battlecruisers need to be streamlined (and I'm not talking aerodynamics) - they all need to be relatively similar in capability and purpose, balanced on the same plane, just as most other ship types are. There is currently too much difference between the BC's in the mod to make them a shipclass of their own, that needs to be rectified.
It is impossible to make Battlecruisers very similar as long as the models are so different in size and hardpoints.
Quote: So, the following changes need to be made to the battlecruiser class in particular:
-Battleship turret hardpoints removed, and replaced with 4 cruiser turret hardpoints (this gives all the bc's other than the order carrier 14 cruiser turrets, rather than 10 cruiser + 2 battleship turrets)
-All battlecruisers need thrusters, they currently need to be added to the LABC and IMGBC
-The Order Carrier needs to be remodelled with similar size and stats as the other battlecruisers, and dropped down to 14 turrets to match the others.
-To set them apart from simple heavy cruisers, BC's should all have a battleship shield hardpoint - another gain in exchange for the loss of battleship weapons
This basically says - up the Order BC by changing it's main drawback (size) and then make all other BCs the same.
Quote:Thus, battlecruisers will become more effective fleet-leadership craft in place of battleships, and they'll become something more along the lines of an advanced heavy cruiser rather than a nerfed battleship. Note that in the listing of turrets above, battlecruisers (as well as heavy cruisers) are restricted to class 8 guns, and thus have no access to battleship weaponry any longer - however, the class 8 guns, being balanced around larger cruiser-class ships, would provide more defensive capability to these ship types than current cruiser-class weaponry does.
You want BC to simply be better than cruisers in every aspect, a step between a cruiser and BS. That is not what they are meant to be right now. They are meant to be cruisers with increased anti-cruiser and BS capabilities, but decreased anti GB/bomber.
If they are just better cruisers, then why fly cruiser? - 4.84 BHG BC vs BHG Destroyer comes to my mind.
I do agree that the thruster-less BCs (LABC, IMG BC) could get a thruster that gives them bigger speed than BS, but not bigger than cruisers. Something like ~120 thruster speed.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Right, ill rant a bit.
Cruisers - think generally of their role. Should be bigger multirole ships, from screening of bigger ships like Battleships and carriers, to effectively engaging big ones as fire support.
Battlecruisers are, if we stick to somehow todays understanding of them :
Battlecruisers shared the very large main armament of battleships, and were generally as large and costly as battleships of the same generation. They traded off armour or firepower for higher speed
Some of our battleecruisers lack that. They should have a thruster, and should be primarily designed to engage capital class craft only, of all kinds. From gunboats to battleships.
Right now, BC is just big target, since it cant be nearly as good as battleship but moves as slow, there is no point in flying it really. They cant do squat to bomber, unless they are bad pilots.
Tenacitys proposal on splitting up the turrets serves one thing above others - helps to design roles of the ships more effectively, balancing can be done as game goes.
IIf there ar more turret types for capitals, itll help the loadout variety and can definitely say, what ship has what role. And I am not talking about cruisers and above. Even gunboats, and while I would nerf them, itd be only a little. Their agility and speed is concerning me. Not much ships can really fight them.
Quote:I do agree that the thruster-less BCs (LABC, IMG BC) could get a thruster that gives them bigger speed than BS, but not bigger than cruisers. Something like ~120 thruster speed.
And once again, it's flipping pointless trying to suggest anything around here while mjolnir sits on the dev team. Always the same response, "No, U! I'm right, you're wrong!"
Y'know what your problem is, mjolnir? You only see the problem, you think that bc's cant be balanced properly because they currently vary so much in size. Here's a hint: models can change, several of them have gone through two or even three model changes already, nothing is static.
You should really start considering what the players here are saying, believe it or not you dont know everything there is to know about this mod, you havent played in every faction - but the players have. Quit acting like an SOE dev, start acting like a Bioware dev.
While tenacity does have a point (in that blunt artillery-subtle way of his...)
Mjolnir, your a great guy, but he has a point this time. Battlecruisers are meant to be heavy cruisers and bs bombarders? LABC and img bc CANT do that at the moment, because a cruise just thrusts around (such as the fearless or seige cruiser) and cant be hit.
The LABC's purpose is to lay down the hurt on other capital ships. It currently with its slow speed cant escape a battleship for its life, since it goes the same speed.
Why not just up BC impulse to 100 and remove their thrusters?
Quote:Why not just up BC impulse to 100 and remove their thrusters?
You would honestly trade off 140m/s thruster speed for a gain of 10m/s impulse? Sorry luna, but that helps no one, and would only serve to nerf the two half-decent bc's in the game right now that -do- have thrusters. Try keeping range from a battleship that has 3k guns when you can only move 10m/s faster, it aint happening.
It isnt just about speed. Yes, thrusters allow bc's and cruisers to get out of bs weapon range or at least get to a range where dodging is possible - but more than that, thrusters double the effectiveness of 'drifting', which makes it far easier to bring weapon arcs to bear on your target, and far easier to dodge any heavy weaponry being fired at you.
After reading this thread (and ones like in the past 2 years), here's my suggestion:
Get rid of the BC class altogether. If a faction doesn't have a cruiser, but has a BC, give them a cruiser as a replacement. The IMG comes to mind. How about the Order? Suggestion: turn the Geb into a BS (see Liberty Assault Carrier).
Honestly, what do we need Cattlebruisers for?
Cruisers have their basic tasks, i.e. killing gbs, other cruisers and BSes in packs.
BSes kill other BSes, cruisers and gbs.
IMO, the BC is nothing more than a poor man's BS. Kind of pointless, kind of superfluous.
' Wrote:After reading this thread (and ones like in the past 2 years), here's my suggestion:
Get rid of the BC class altogether. If a faction doesn't have a cruiser, but has a BC, give them a cruiser as a replacement. The IMG comes to mind. How about the Order? Suggestion: turn the Geb into a BS (see Liberty Assault Carrier).
Honestly, what do we need Cattlebruisers for?
Cruisers have their basic tasks, i.e. killing gbs, other cruisers and BSes in packs.
BSes kill other BSes, cruisers and gbs.
IMO, the BC is nothing more than a poor man's BS. Kind of pointless, kind of superfluous.
I dont really disagree with this, but if you're going to turn the Geb into a battleship, any players who have had their gebs for an extended period should be given a free battleship license to go with it. Many players bought the ship because it was a "poor man's BS", and they didnt have the cash for a full fledged battleship.
Personally, I'd love to have my geb turned into a battleship, it'd fix a lot of the problems it has and as long as I dont have to pay anything except for new guns, I'd be happy with that solution.
' Wrote:I dont really disagree with this, but if you're going to turn the Geb into a battleship, any players who have had their gebs for an extended period should be given a free battleship license to go with it. Many players bought the ship because it was a "poor man's BS", and they didnt have the cash for a full fledged battleship.
Personally, I'd love to have my geb turned into a battleship, it'd fix a lot of the problems it has and as long as I dont have to pay anything except for new guns, I'd be happy with that solution.
No skin off my nose. The Geb should have been a BS to begin with. A grandfather clause should have some stipulations in it though. It wouldn't be terribly fair if someone knowlingly purchased a Geb two weeks before the BS conversion, in the hopes of saving cash.
Maybe a minimum of 6 months of ownership as a prerequisite for a free BS conversion?
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