I'd say it's merely proactive defense. We were about to send our ships through, so to protect them, we cleared everything out first. Hunting for pirates and terrorists is when you do it just to hunt them. We were doing it to clear ahead for our convoy, which was about to go through. It makes perfect military and economic sense.
Well, I'll welcome a sanction if the admins feel the ID was breached, that is, there was roleplay abuse.
I however, remain of a firm attitude that we should not judge things blindly but take variables into consideration.
The day when we start using nitpicks in ID parameters in RP discussions is a sad day. Rulewise, sure, rules need to be followed and whatever judgment comes, we acknowledge.
Anyways.
I must say that I do kind of agree with a few points by Politus there.
I do acknowledge the sovereignty issue and that's all fine and well, but I do disapprove of the usage of force against your own allies, at least on the scene.
That only happens when 1) the person behind the keyboard, or in-RP, the commander, is not acting in common sense, and when 2) it is a deliberate attempt to provoke hostilities (I don't think this was the case).
All the diplomacy, all the consequences, all the resentment from Kusari - justified, but our resentment because of the use of force against our ships from our allies, also oh so present.
I think that, what would've been more prudent, is to fight it out with words, file the complaint to the Emperor, and then all that already happened happens, as opposed to irrational gun usage.
So just to reiterate, I do acknowledge some of your arguments, Zelot, especially the one about sovereignty, but I hope you'll also acknowledge some of mine/ours and that we'll all drop the blame stick because this is not about whose fault it is, but merely about all of our reasoning behind our actions which is supposed to help to play things out realistically.
' Wrote:People are still missing a point that entire "bring forces to kusari without traders = breaking kusari codex"
Yep, I acknowledge that, as I said up here. It's not the part where I have an actual issue, it's all understandable.
Lastly, I also must notice a slight tendency by some, not all of you, or perhaps none of you if I'm seeing wrong, of the incident being fueled more than it should've been by the out-of-RP stance of certain people who pre-judge things as PVP-hunting.
I don't think I need to say that I feel a bit insulted that something we've worked hard for for years is brought down to mindless driveling PVP by some people. I am of a strong opinion that your opinions of the people behind the keyboard should never affect your RP actions, nor should your desire to have 'shi7s and giggles'(the destroyer).
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
The reason I said you, (Politus) didnt read anything of what we said is that you ignored everything we said. But if you wish, I will comment on your post point by point.
' Wrote:Now, I wasn't there so I may not have all of the information...
But you forget that, with all of your obsession over "sovereignty," what we did was perfectly acceptable up until Ame-chan fired upon our ships.Abosluty not, as we have pointed to the relevent portions of the Kusari Legal Codex that your ships were in violation of. EVERYTHING we did was reasonable. We aren't restricted from flying ONE flight of our ships proactively through a nation which cannot defend our convoys adequately, to clear out the buggers.Yes, in fact you are restricted from doing so, look at your ID, and look again at the relevent parts of the Kusari Legal Codex. It is, in fact, a good thing for both parties, as we went to clear out pirates, and everyone should be happy about that. That is, every intelligent person should. So basicly, all intelligent people think the way you do, or see things the way you do. Conversly then, what you are saying is that only unintelligent would disagree with you. I disagree with you, there fore you are calling me stupid... thanks.
Last I checked, an invasion force involves Capital Ships. You, Zelot, should know this by now, as you allegedly RP the Emperor (if I read that correctly) of Kusari, a house currently involved in an offensive war. In a game world where 3 bombers can destroy a battleship, that is not true in any way shape or form. As such, a few fighters and bombers hunting for outcasts isn't exactly an invasion. Creative use of termonoligy, does not change that the act was a violation of our soverignty. It's the equivalent of, to use your sovereignty argument, sending a few armed guards ahead to make sure that the waterways are clear for our tankers. Which is illegal in the real world according to many countries laws. We didn't send tanks and warfleets into your cities -which would be an invasion- nor did we send them into your military bases. We sent a few fighters and a couple of bombers to make sure that the waterways were cleared before we sent our transports through. As I said, in a game world where 3 bombers can destroy a battleship, that is not true in any way shape or form.
If anything, what we did made perfect sense. Again, you refuse to look at this from any viewpoint beside your own.
The entire issue exists because the character Ame-chan is not fit to command a destroyer, being someone who shoots people for candy, shoots them after she gets candy, and calls others cabbages. This would be alright if she was forced to pilot something more suited to her: A starflea. But she captains a Destroyer, despite the fact that she is not responsible enough to do so. Again, not the point as the CR were in violation of Kusari law, and probably thier ID before Ame even had anything to do with it.
I admire your arguments. Truly. However, it IS about Ame-chan, because Ame-chan made it about her. She was the one who reported it to the Emperor, if I read the screenshots correctly, running away after SHE shot first. You can't argue sovereignty because Ame-chan didn't care about sovereignty, she was just being immature. She shot first, with no provocation, and when we defended ourselves against HER aggression, she ran to the Emperor like a girl who just got a spanked for being bad. Which she was. Again, not the point as the CR were in violation of Kusari law, and probably thier ID before Ame even had anything to do with it.
Once more, I admire your attempts at shifting the blame to us. However, that was no invasion fleet, no assault force, sent in to violate Kusari sovereignty. That was what you would call adequate preparation, a squad of soldiers sent in to kill off the guerrilla forces that the local soldiers couldn't kill off. Again this is a violation of the law in many countries in the world today. Doesnt matter whether you were sent to violate Kusari sovergnty, the mere act alone does it, not the intentions.
Please try to see things from a view point other than your own.
Expect the CR ID to repninja all of Kusari to Hostile.
That is what you are causing here.
Um... Akura?
I was of the opinion that there were no hostilities here. No one said that, to my knowledge. Kusari wanted to keep all of our ships out of their space for 7 days, and Angelos cancelled the alliance. That means going back to a neutral/friendly state.
I hope that our oorp discussion here is not causing any in-RP hostilities, for that would indeed be tremendously worrying. Going to a hostile status would seem... ah, extremely without any supporting pillars here.
And okay, Dieter, we understand that, I merely feel that a discussion in the meantime can't hurt either way. Nothing's definitive anyways.
' Wrote:*Rubs head* Ah, good to see i'm not needed here anymore.
*Walks aways so the big guys squander it off.*
I'm not the 'big guys', mate.
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