The super alliances that have been going on detract from the game and tend to mould all the factions within them into one lump with just a few goals/motivations.
The factions that were hostile originally but jumped into bed together find their potential for fun severely reduced. Even factions where friction occured between them were more interesting than bedfellows.
The Mollys/BAF are a good example. The Hessians and the other Rheinland groups including the SCRA.
We see that the lesser groups within the alliance tend to lose their identity. When dealing with them, they are percieved to have the same goals as the larger faction. When considering who to enlist with, the larger faction is the one that is predominantly chosen and the interaction between these factions dies down to two friends, meeting over the garden fence.
'May you live in interesting times' I believe was a curse for a reason.
Well, in the Disco universe, I hope I DO live in interesting times.
Having the unioners protrayed as terrorists might be detrimental. The alliance with the LWB is a good thing but the both groups should be careful. The LWB have a lot of sympathy from the Rheinland people. Their cause is seen quietly to be good. If they were seen to be allied to child killers, that support might wane.
The same goes for the Bundschuh. They are a political group. Being grouped with child killers (people who blow up schools) might not do their vote a lot of good.
Robbing Republican shipping, the ones responsible for your predicament, battling with an oppressive military and stealing only what you need to survive is seen as being a bit Robin Hood-ish. People like that.
The Bundschuh would like that and so would the LWB.
I believe the alliance with the Hessians is not in the Unioners interests. Both groups have their own areas of operation which do overlap in New Berlin, but thats about as far as it goes. I'm sure I read that at one point, they were at war with the Hessians over mining in Dresden?
They should be cordial and friendly, but an alliance?
They are both pirates. They get crocodile friendly (a big smile). They get associated. They group up to overcome a superior force and split a larger profit.
There should be a relationship there. It should be amicable. Allied?
I don't think so. Cordial. Even warm. But not an alliance.
I think relationships should be courted with the rogues. Hudson base is in an excellent position for various activities. They can be useful as a route into Liberty to sell contraband for both parties. They have no interest in Rheinland and they know the Unioners have no interest in Liberty. The best reason to be friendly then. Money.
What about the Junkers?
They have bases in most systems in and around Sirius. Possibly explore trade routes and, if found profitable, negotiate. If not, feed them to the Xenos.
Corsairs. Well, aligning yourself with them could seriously damage anything with anyone. They ARE child killers. Some refer to them as baby eaters. Thats a non starter...up to a point.
An alliance would be out of the question and probably quite fruitless. On the other hand, a trade relationship wouldn't hurt. They allow food in and artifacts out. You have an alliance with the LWB and a route into Liberty. Put two and two together...
You control the gateway to Liberty. All those high value goods moving through your territory. Your own ships, moving them (or your new found friends, the rogues).
Alliances can be burdensome. They come with lots of baggage.
The LWB I thought were supposed to remain neutral to Corsairs and Outcasts. I suppose it got changed within the official alliance with the Hessians?
The Unioners distanced themselves. I suggest you try to live in interesting times.
When the diamond run dried up, traffic in Frankfurt died off and so did my revenue stream (sadly).
The Bering straights carry little traffic now as the war rages and contraband is just about anything of any value. Once upon a time, Republican shipping used to run from New Berlin to Honshu and back again. I made a few creds. Now they are few and far between.
All of these were once good sources of revenue gone bad.
Now the miners move down from the Tau's through Frankfurt and if the Bundschuh won't take advantage, you should. The Rheinland corporations move through Stuttgart and New Berlin in numbers. With an alliance with the LWB, you have good coverage.
With regard to the war, the RM has grown considerably now and engaging them is like kicking a hornets nest. I admit, it can be fun but I'm so out of practice...
When I meet a liberty ship in Rheinland, I attack it. If I meet a Liberty ship and a Rheinland ship, I attack the strongest first hoping the combined strength will win through and leave the weaker to battle it out with me.
As a Unioner, I am happy to see my oppressors weakened. I may not like seeing foreign warships in my homeland but I'm not an idealists, I'm a realist.
The life of a Unioner should be sold as bloody hard. It is. If I'm not getting raped by Liberty Cruisers, it's Rheinland battleships or swarms of fighters.
If any of you people reading this don't have a Unioner character and enjoy PvP, sign up. I assure you that living in a war zone gives you more oppurtunity than any other faction (including the CR) on this server.
One other thing, if the Mercs are giving you trouble, offer them more. They work for money, not platitudes. They gave good service to the HSR before the AU came into being. They could do it again ;)
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My experiences with Unioners hasn't been all that unpleasant even if they are few and far between. I was pirated by one once, listening to his tale about how Republican put him and his friends out of work. He got more than he asked for. That's how good his RP was.
IMO, Unioners are a group of gifted shipwrights and assorted shipyard laborers who were basically given the short end by Corporate Rheinland and it's government who have rebelled in the only way they know how but still maintain a level of respect for those who aren't an enemy. My experience with them is a good example.
Alliance with the Red Hessians? Out of necessity maybe but their means are totally different. The Hessians are more against the government than anything else as are the Bundshuh.
The problem with all that Robin Hood style and 'asking for donations/contributions' is simple.
There are two ways to behave as a 'pirate'. Either you take what you want, enforcing your demands with any kind of violence you deem necessary and sometimes even a bit more to establish a name or a realm of fear around you.
Or you are telling your story with the right amount of in RP Q_Q and then ask for a donation. If the other one isn't willing to donate, you let him go. Its basically begging.
I find it hypocritical, bad form and bad RP to ask for donations and if the other doesn't comply, to enforce it with gunfire. And I've seen this way too often, from all the Rheinland unlawful parties. It's either this or that, nothing inbetween.
And personally, I'm sick and tired of that donations and begging thing. Its nice to do it once in a while on a LWB char, but it doesn't fit the image of the Uniners I get while reading infocards.
Summed up, the Unioner history reads as the following:
500 AS: Shipyard workers unite to shorten workhours and improve payment and safety at their workplace.
between 500 AS and the begin of the 80 years war: The Workers Union is getting more and more powerful, raising wages and shortening workhours over and over again. They become used to their influence and power, and they get more and more greedy. Republican shipping is having problems to keep production on one level with the Kusari competition and has issues paying its employees because they earn too much.
End of the 80 yoears war (around 700AS), demand for new ships drops considerably, Republican can't pay its workers anymore and has to fire thousands of them. The workers revolt and some of them form the Unioners in Bering on Freeport 2. After another revolt on Hamburg the movement grows considerably and the Zoners have to kick the Unioners out from FP2, Unioners build their Pacifica Base in Tanner asteroid belt.
Unioners continue to raid Hamburg and New Berlin, including Alster shipyard and the Ring/Altona which leads to broken bonds with the workers still employed (and suffering terrible condidtions) there.
Until today they pillage, plunder and kill anything related to Republican and conduct regular piracy and smuggling through Hudson and Bering to fund their operations.
The Unioners aren't nice people. They are a bunch of power-hungry, greedy and overconfident ex-workers who morn lost privileges. They fight to prove a point, they fight to prove Republican and everybody else that they are still powerful and influental. They don't care for the freedom of the workers or the opressing government. They want revenge and possibly the recreation of the former workers union with all its rights and privileges.
At least thats how I interpret the vanilla Infocards of theirs, however, I still have much lore-reading to do.
I'll read some rumors and news now and then further comment on the terrorism/bombs thing.
Edit: After checking news, infocards and rumors on Dawson and Pacifica, I only found one single rumor stating the Unioners are trying to help the opressed workers class. All others news and rumors indicate that they indeed fight to prove a point and get revenge. If they encounter fighting LN and RM ships, they kill the Libertonians first and then jump on the weakened RM survivors. They also conduct raids on docked tradeships on Altona. Not exactely what I'd call 'nice people':)
Edit2: Rumors and news on lawful bases indicate that the Unioners are raiding, killing and bombing anything related to Republican shipping, and they don't seem to care about civilian casualties or victims amongst the crews of the ships they destroy/bomb.
Found nothing so far indicating they are bombing other targets as well, so it seems to be a kind of selective terrorism?
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' Wrote:The problem with all that Robin Hood style and 'asking for donations/contributions' is simple.
Well, the Unioner who told me of the plight of his people in a good RP fashion got more than he would otherwise have if he had just "pirated." Consider that in your thought process.
' Wrote:Well, the Unioner who told me of the plight of his people in a good RP fashion got more than he would otherwise have if he had just "pirated." Consider that in your thought process.
It isn't always about 'getting more credits' and not every trader thinks as you do. Its about RPing a faction (or a faction member) properly.
There are also variations between the individual members, some might be less agressive than others and so on.
This thread is about the general direction the Unioners will be going in the future, and just because traders like us to be nice, it doesn't mean we will be.
My mistake. I didn't explain myself.
Robin Hood didn't ask. He wasn't after donations. If they came, he'd take em. It saved him the trouble of killing people. If they didn't, he was quite capable and very willing to take them.
This isn't about romantic heroes of old. As I said, I'm a realist. I'm more Rob In the Hood.
Kill, maim and destroy. Whats important is that while your doing it, tell them it's for the poor starving workers of Hamburg.
I didn't mean you ask politely. You do it at the point of a gun. If they don't comply, you tell them it makes you very sad but little Hanz must eat this week so "BANG".
Remember that Robin Hood didn't say "Hey Mr Norman tax collector, can you spare a few coins for the poor"?
No, he killed people and went through the bloodied pockets of their still warm bodies and while he was at it, started a rumor which is now global about how much of a nice guy he was, even if he actually wasn't all that nice.
Republican is a dead duck at the moment. There may be a few ships but I gave up waiting for them a long time ago. If you meet one, he may not know who the Unioners are!
Take anyone and anything if I was you, but give them the message.
The good Doc Holliday has confirmed that some of us out there try. His response was positive. He got 'the message' delivered to him both politically and possibly ballistically, although if it was my Unioner, it was a looonnnggg time ago.
Lastly, if I ran into three RM fighters and a liberty fighter, I'd go after the RM. If we won, I'd attack the Liberty guy. Thats just my take on it though.
I like the proposed direction. I fly as Bundschuh because they are different, not wanting to resort to piracy and all that.
The Unioners would be their foil in a number of ways and I think the latent conflict produced by this would create many interesting inter-criminal RP opportunities.
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As I said, Blubba, some good RP that I've seen coming from the Unioners I've met. They seem to be pleasant to us Zoner types. After all, they are allowed to land at Freeport 2 for re-supply. I think the Unioners know that as well and keep it in mind. I think they also know that Zoners aren't so much unlike themselves as both oppose house rule, the difference being how they deal with it. Unioners use force, the Zoners just live away from it all as much as possible.