Split from Admin Notice: Player Fined, Bladerunner

[ghostcat]

If he wants to kill without warning, he should become a terrorist.
Besides, there is no money in killing traders, since you get a minimal return from the tiny amount of cargo that they can salvage...

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........Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;..........But when the blast of war blows in our ears,.....
........Or close the wall up with our English dead...........................Then imitate the action of the tiger;.................
........In peace there's nothing so becomes a man........................Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,.........
........As modest stillness and humility:........................................Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage!....

Dasher

"Another popup faction. Great. What's wrong with my popup blocker?" - Denelo
"Oh come on, slow and steady doesn't win any races, fast and steady does."

Back, if I can get this thing working!

[Korrd]

No. Unless you team up with a cargo ship in order to steal the cargo.

Still, why are we arguing here? The fine was issued because said pirate was killing with no warning. There is a slight difference between taking hull to half and killing...

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(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )

[caylith]

Now.. as to lawfuls and traders. If a house military asks you to drop your contraband...you need to drop it or be fired upon. Simple as that. If you dock without dropping it or being killed, a lot of house factions will tell you to pay a fine.

Now, if you are pirate tagged and attack a house faction, that's just a shoot on sight thing isn't it?

I have one for you; What happens when a pirate smuggler (i.e. Outcast tagged and ID'd) tries to land on Houston or New Berlin? He 'should' be shot on sight since he's an unlawful who is dumb enough to try and dock on a lawful planet in front of the lawful players. What do you do in that situation? I know what I would do in my RM char...i'd fire and ask questions later.

[heathensoul]

That's the thing where I don't agree.
If the real coast guard encounters smugglers, they'll board their ship and detain them. Not just kill them all and confiscate the contraband afterwards. Why would lawfuls be allowed to just go around killing criminals??? That's just plain unfair AND unrealistic.

As for the "shoot on sight", I don't disagree with that in general. But if you are superior, you shouldn't just blow the criminal up. Bring down his/her shields, damage his/her hull... maybe say something like "cut your engines and surrender your ship NOW or be destroyed!" - if the criminal doesn't comply, you can kill him/her.

Edit: Damned political correctness.

[caylith]

Um, that's good and all.... But how do you 'enforce' that? What I normally say when I blow the smuggler up is "Pay the fine or stay in Jail'. If they don't pay the fine and continue to trade in my system, he continues to get blown up.

Rheinland Military has a zero tolerance for pirates. I see nothing wrong with that. What else are we going to do but fight them? We can't talk over system chat and say, 'Come over here, Unioner. You're under arrest!" What do you think that Unioner is going to do? He is going to point his guns at me and start firing.

[heathensoul]

Yupp. And then you fire back. If you're superior, you'll keep firing until you nearly kill him and then ask him one last time to surrender.
And from there, it's up to the pirate to follow RP.
There is no way to "enforce" this. Exactly the same thing as for the pirates: there is no way for the pirate to be sure that the trader will actually stand still long enough and pay the fee (since CDs seldom work). But if the trader follows the RP, he'll pay.
If the pirate follows it, he'll give up. Unless he's a crazy person who has no regard for his own life.
The interaction I'm proposing needs both sides to participate, of course.
But that's exactly the case with pirates traders too.

[Virus]

As much as I like the way that sounds... I just don't think it can be done. Once they surrender, they're still going to get mobbed by NPC's. I've seen people in Taiidan Bombers get annihilated by Rheinland NPC's. Actually, I let the NPC's kill a hostile Taiidan because they were doing so well. (All I did was keep the tradelanes inactive and let the mob of Police NPCs, two battleships, 4 Cruisers, 4 Gunboats, and 4 Wraths kill him. ^.^)

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[Archelon]

Hmm - interesting discussion here. Let me point out something if I may. The rules for pirates seem to be more restrictive than rules for any other player.

Steps for a pirate to follow while engaging other players:
1. Be in a system you are allowed to pirate in - for a Rogue this means I must be in Liberty or independent systems
2. When (and if) you find a target, check to make sure they are above level 30
3. Get close enough to scan for their ID and verify they have cargo in their holds
4a. If their ID is one you can pirate and they have cargo, start taking down their shields and hull (or you can demand before you open fire)
4b. If they have no cargo or an ID you cannot pirate, gotta let em go
5. Demand cash or loot before they are destroyed
6a. If they decline to pay, kill them
6b. If they pay, receive payment and let them go about their business
7. If they dock, sell their cargo and undock empty, gotta let em go

Now typically what happens is the target will either dock, sell cargo and undock or they'll dock and switch to a different character. The latter tends to piss me off. I can't camp and attack when they undock, but I can wait around the dock and follow them (giving them some time to maneuver) and then re-engage. And its becoming a bit more difficult to kill Trains these days since they are typically wearing Armor Upgrade Mk VIII (which I'm pretty sure is not permitted). And they will typically have weapons you'd expect on a battleship, not a Train. I even got attacked by two Trains once. They tore through my shields and armor like a hot knife through butter. Which brings up another problem with pirating these days. The rules say I've gotta be in a gunboat or smaller. If a trader is gonna be heavily armed, I'm gonna need help or be in a bigger ship.

A trader is RARELY pirated successfully these days simply because the rules for pirates are extreme and the traders tend to hang around NY or heavily protected systems such as Texas, New Berlin, Cambridge or New Tokyo. I try to pirate a ship in New Tokyo with my Blood Dragon and KNF is all over me. I make an attempt to pirate in Texas with my Rogues and SA is everywhere. I make an attempt to engage a trader in Omega 5 or New Berlin with my Red Hessian and SF or RM are there. Traders have no challenge on this server. Since I've been on this server, I think I've successfully pirated a total of 5 traders. I see more action from RM, SF, SA and KNF attacking me on sight than I do from traders. I'm glad they get the opportunity to RP their characters to the maximum extent possible.

[Dab]

1. Be in a system you are allowed to pirate in - for a Rogue this means I must be in Liberty or independent systems

Your allowed to pirate anywhere. Korrd dealt with that a long time ago when Wolfpack was mad at me in my Wraith (Bundschuh) pirating in Omega-5 (Corsair/Hessien space) and shooting Bs| transports. Something along the lines of; 'PC pirates can not be restricted to NPC zone of influence (ZoI).

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[Archelon]

Your allowed to pirate anywhere. Korrd dealt with that a long time ago when Wolfpack was mad at me in my Wraith (Bundschuh) pirating in Omega-5 (Corsair/Hessien space) and shooting Bs| transports. Something along the lines of; 'PC pirates can not be restricted to NPC zone of influence (ZoI).

Um - no - Korrd recently posted that with a Rogue ID, I have cannot pirate outside Liberty or the nearby independent systems. I tried pirating in my Blood Dragon in Rheinland space and got complaints by RM for even being there. The complaints got so loud that Korrd ruled I couldn't take my Blood Dragon ID'd character outside Kusari and pirate. I can fly there, just can't pirate. Hence, this is the first step to pirating. Also, Korrd said the only way to pirate anywhere is to use the generic Pirate ID.