' Wrote:I fail to see why should Outcasts have clones of RoS ships, really, it's already a Sabre-ish ship. If you want a Lich, go fly Sabre cuz they're the same thing.
I never said they should clone the Lich for the Outcasts.
RP wise - a good model for the outcasts is one that supports their demands on a ship.
the borderworld ships are generic civilian - and were co-produced and developed by those factions capable and wealthy enough to build them. - hence they had to satisfy many needs ... and in RP... they are more jacks of all traits than specialized ( which is rather poorly reflected in the balance ). the reason the outcasts use the BW line is, cause the efford and price to make their own does not justify the improvement.
the outcasts have unhuman reflexes and combat senses due to being affected by long term usage of cardamine. a ship that satisfies the outcasts is a ship that reacts just as quickly as they can.
there are two things that would need to be done in order not to upset the balance much ( that is - if we want things to be reflected in stats, too .. and not only imaginary roleplay )
- firstly ... the BW line would need to be reduced in agility and turning response significantly
- secondly ... the outcasts would make a ship that is pretty much "the most responsive and agile" there is
the ship should also not need to be too large ( so the racers from that wipeout racing game DO fit well )
- thirdly ... what the outcasts do NOT need ... is armor protection - cause they rely on "not getting hit" in the first place. they would also not require strong shields
now - to get back to the models presented.
- on first glance they embody something i do not associate with the needs of outcasts. - they look heavy and fast ... but not quick turning. - they look a bit like short range fighters that still have quite a considerable mass to them. - or in other words - they do not look agile.
- the sabre resemblence is striking - but i have to agree with those who say that these do not look like a further developement. - at most they look like a parallel developement in another direction. - or even a proto model of the sabre.
keep in mind - snubs in freelancer have rather small engines - usually. if they have big ones - the are usually marked as heavy, long range ships. - smallish agile ships ( dragon, chavalier, patriot ) often have a ratio of 5% engines to 95% hull. big, heavy ships tend to have a ratio that is more balanced. - capital ships have a ratio that is almost 30:70 ( but its hard to assess, cause the engines start to become part of the hull )
as other have said - the models are good. - just not what i think outcasts would build - as their primary characteristic in a dogfight is the very opposite of the corsairs.
outcasts go for: burst damage, agility, speed bursts .... and sacrifice: sustained damage, top speed in a straight line, armor and protection
corsairs go for: sustained damage, armor and protection, long range efficiency .... and sacrifice: high burst damage, agility
' Wrote:Maybe if you think these modals will be a good addition to the game, then push for it to be a freelancer's ship.. open use to all..
No outcast would drop a Sabre for such a blatantly heavier and easier to hit construction.
In short: Dump this hiddious abomination on a differant faction, not one that needs a newer modal of the Sabre.
Don't talk in the name of -all- Outcasts. I will gladly ditch my Sabre for this. If you don't want to, it's ok. Besides, you don't like it, that doesn't make it a "hideous abomination". Models are great, and they do fit the Outcasts very well.
As for size comparison, I've seen one. It's smaller than the Sabre (not by much), but it doesn't have those holes. Why be worried by balance at this point? They will be balanced accordingly to size.
And Jinx: I came to you, first, for these very same models. You dropped off. So the whole point is moot. The whole idea that the Outcasts would go for very small and fast ships comes from where, exactly? Look at what they are using currently, both snubwise and capwise.
' Wrote:RP wise - a good model for the outcasts is one that supports their demands on a ship.
the borderworld ships are generic civilian - and were co-produced and developed by those factions capable and wealthy enough to build them. - hence they had to satisfy many needs ... and in RP... they are more jacks of all traits than specialized ( which is rather poorly reflected in the balance ). the reason the outcasts use the BW line is, cause the efford and price to make their own does not justify the improvement.
the outcasts have unhuman reflexes and combat senses due to being affected by long term usage of cardamine. a ship that satisfies the outcasts is a ship that reacts just as quickly as they can.
there are two things that would need to be done in order not to upset the balance much ( that is - if we want things to be reflected in stats, too .. and not only imaginary roleplay )
- firstly ... the BW line would need to be reduced in agility and turning response significantly
- secondly ... the outcasts would make a ship that is pretty much "the most responsive and agile" there is
the ship should also not need to be too large ( so the racers from that wipeout racing game DO fit well )
- thirdly ... what the outcasts do NOT need ... is armor protection - cause they rely on "not getting hit" in the first place. they would also not require strong shields
now - to get back to the models presented.
- on first glance they embody something i do not associate with the needs of outcasts. - they look heavy and fast ... but not quick turning. - they look a bit like short range fighters that still have quite a considerable mass to them. - or in other words - they do not look agile.
- the sabre resemblence is striking - but i have to agree with those who say that these do not look like a further developement. - at most they look like a parallel developement in another direction. - or even a proto model of the sabre. keep in mind - snubs in freelancer have rather small engines - usually. if they have big ones - the are usually marked as heavy, long range ships. - smallish agile ships ( dragon, chavalier, patriot ) often have a ratio of 5% engines to 95% hull. big, heavy ships tend to have a ratio that is more balanced. - capital ships have a ratio that is almost 30:70 ( but its hard to assess, cause the engines start to become part of the hull )
so - my idea of an outcast line is either:
- like the starfury of babylon 5 ( which due to their shape and engine arrangement support the idea of extreme agility ) http://www.isnnews.net/babylon5/gallery/...rfury3.jpg
as other have said - the models are good. - just not what i think outcasts would build - as their primary characteristic in a dogfight is the very opposite of the corsairs.
outcasts go for: burst damage, agility, speed bursts .... and sacrifice: sustained damage, top speed in a straight line, armor and protection
corsairs go for: sustained damage, armor and protection, long range efficiency .... and sacrifice: high burst damage, agility
as I said "big engines can mean more agility than mass, 'cos logically mounting engine (on vhf for example) that can't move/rotate itself fast enough is stupid, as well as making wings full of armor or something else. Wings in space should be treated like weapon mounts, ammo storage, fuel storage or have any other good meaning to be a part of ship."
the idea was to add different propulsion design, more forced. but making engines small will remove "your lovely feeling that it's a VHF (HF, LF, BOMBER)". My point is that volume based balance should not be primary here.
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