Heavy Fighters VS Very Heavy Fighters

[kikatsu]

Maybe I should say this is not about balance but making HFs do something that LFs and VHFs can't, giving people a reason to pick them over the others with regularity. They work as is, I have flown Agamas, whatever the GRN one is, the Bayonet, and the Marauder rather regularly and I love them, not saying that there is a deficiency there but I am saying that they do not really stick out and VHFs are still more useful... hence why I go back to my original idea of making it so that they can fire their weapons far longer than a VHF but have less damage per hit...maybe upping their cruise and thruster speed by 10 points...maybe even going so far as to give them faster recharging shields than VHFs

[ProwlerPC]

hence why I go back to my original idea of making it so that they can fire their weapons far longer than a VHF but have less damage per hit..

Actually this was a balance issue concerning 8.55's. They are slated as you described but the problem is that you get no where even close to the optimal DPS the stats will mention as opposed to the burst damage DPS of the 2.00's on the other side of the scale. This was why the buff to the damage of the individual projectiles from 8.55's and a seemingly large DPS but a DPS that no one is going to reach due to the nature of 8.55s.

edit add: another damage nerf would revisit this balance issue but then cause problems if any adjustment will affect a VHF using said guns and not receive the same nerf. Gets sticky.

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[Ursus]

I agree they need a bigger core. Even when a good HF can get behind a bomber, it is still unable to deliver the firepower needed to bring it down (what's worse is the bad HFs also have the same limit, so they are unable to evade and also unable to punch).

Right now the HFs are about 30-40% weaker than VHF in hull, core, bats/bots, etc (not counting the different hardpoints with lower potential damage). My feeling is that the core and hull should be closer to 20% less (still weak enough for a VHF to kill it in a joust but enough for a HF to kill a VHF from behind). If they are supposed to be VHF except in name, they should have the same hull/core.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Diomedes]

I fly HFs, mostly the Paladin, Crow, a bit of time ina Bayonet and some time ago a Gladiator. I thoroughly enjoy them all, even if the crow seems to have a "press here to disintegrate" button in a collision.

But yeah, other than the previously mentioned exceptional HFs (Bayonet, Agama and so on) they mostly seem like anaemic VHFs. In the case of the Paladin, an agile VHF that lacks core or armour. Trust me, the paladin is a tough, tough ship to fly against BD and KNF whose VHF will turn nearly as well, can mount codes and have better armour/core.

The Gladiator is an awesome fighter as it is different, and built to be an interdiction vessel. It can both stop and lay hurt on the target (CD and razor). As most HFs stand, they are just the lighter VHF that few people are interested in using when they should be an equally attractive option.

And this isn't to say HFs are underpowered across the board, but for general circumstances when you can't pick your opponent or whether it a duel/group fight VHFs are just far more versatile against other VHFs, transports or gunboats. On top of that, the HF doesn't offer any bonus for the lack of versatility, except maybe a better chance to take on LFs.

I personally would love to see more dedicated interdiction-type platforms like the Gladiator (yeah, I play QCP so I'm biased), but some good anti-transport options other than bombers would be nice. They might actually be quite widely used since they could both pirate well and stand a fighting chance when police fighters show up. And it just makes more sense to me than most pirates using military grade bombers because it's the best thing for hit and runs on supply convoys....

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[Prysin]

Ursus, FYI.

Most VHF can turn faster then the corsair light fighter, Agility aint all, hell, even shape aint all.

your crying over "damage output" ??? My god, you guys need to learn to manage your energy then.

heavy fighters is a ship of finesse and skill. If you want more armor, more firepower, then theres the VHF. If you want high agility, decent firepower and armor - EAGLE IS YOUR CHOICE.

If you cannot take your lower armor rating, firepower and core into consideration before flying, your simply not suited to play as a HF pilot. Get over it, these ships need no rebalancing, their all fine as is, but the alpha/omega in using them is power management and dodging.

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DHC Discord

[sajjukar]

You are right but that wil also changes things in gunboat part....do remember that in vailla SP that rheinland gunboat is VERY fast thing wich here in disco isnt(i mean speed)

[ProwlerPC]

But HFs are insanely good at dropping bombers. I've learned that even taking a Noob partner with me that two Karasu HFs are insanely good at dropping GBs. When jumping into a combination of 3 Karasu HFs and 2 Kaichou Bombers we are insanely good at dropping fleets and clearing out multiple systems. HFs are cool ships. Don't look at the numbers, just go in and use them, if you are doing it right the only gun the enemy should be able to reliably have facing you is their rear turret.

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[mjolnir]

I would say that HFs like:

Agama, Bayonett, Gaian HF, Marauder (with some small issues), Centurion, GMG HF, Switchblade etc are working as intended. Gladiator is a bit special ship which is ok since corsairs have 2 HFs.

If some HFs are much worse than these they should be fixed.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Ursus]

I would say that HFs like:

Agama, Bayonett, Gaian HF, Marauder (with some small issues), Centurion, GMG HF, Switchblade etc are working as intended. Gladiator is a bit special ship which is ok since corsairs have 2 HFs.

If some HFs are much worse than these they should be fixed.

You did not include Serval in your list, but it seems to work fine. I haven't tested them all, but Executioner and Paladin are clearly worse than those.

And the HF class needs a slightly larger core so that it can actually gun down the opposing ship. Idea being that both ships should be able to kill the other with a full core dump. If they are facing each other the larger ship should win because of more/bigger weapons on the big ship running out the weaker hull on the small ship. But if the smaller ship gets behind the bigger ship, it should still be able to dump core and win. Right now the HF core doesn't have the power to kill in a single dump.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Sava]

I enjoy flying HFs. Have Switchblade and Centurion. There are no major balance issues. But..
LFs got 850 eps regen in 4.86. How about to give HFs the same +50 eps? Also, HF cruise speed could be put somewhere between VHFs and LFs.
Could be just great.

P.S. changing fighter's thruster speed can seriously affect PvP balance in my opinion, ie chasing shieldrunning LF or HF on a VHF becomes almost pointless. Better leave this as it is.