' Wrote:Okay, after the kudos for the roleplay of one individual SCRA last time, some criticism now for the faction behaviour in genereal (after the Dublin massacre) because I feel there is actually something wrong:
So you made a second sub-faction inside the SCRA to be able top drop the little roleplay one could have with you (= the positive sides of commuism, the worker's quest, etc) and to be able to engage all the few parties still left?
Is it true that it is not really a war inside the SCRA (2 leaders, 2 different sides, 2 groups of players fighting each other), but that it is 1 leader, a united player base just flying today as "Katz-ists" and one day as "Volkhan-ists"? The unchanged large numbers of SCRA spamming into systems and killing literally EVERYTHING (and all roleplay to be found there) make me guess it is a unified player base.
I will be looking really close in the future to see whether the Katz-chars are always flying as Katzians and the Volkhanists as Volkhanists. Because I have the suspicion that it's just random characters being used, which I cannot prove (yet).
So I can only say for feedback (and please mind the sarcasm): Great. Awesome!
You replaced the former SCRA roleplay with the "roleplay": "For Volkhan! Die, enemies of Volkhan! Ehm... that's all of Sirius! Wow. Diieeee... all of you!"
Not really amazing. You see, I am absolutely not enthusiastic about your "great idea".
Forming a subfaction to be able to pew everything, is just lame.
Wiping roleplay from complete systems in which you comfortably defined ALL parties as enemies (Dublin: you shoot IMG, Molly, BAF, BMM = all parties with bases in the system) is just a no-go in my opinion.
Just read your "victory report" if you don't know what this is about:
To continue, with no contacts in the area I chose to proceed to Dublin. Given the recent Rebel activity and the rather target-rich environment it was a good way to both extend our patrol and introduce the Scouts to some more "entertaining" bits of space.
= translated into OORP: Hehe, we went to a place where we can shoot everything, lots of players that we all defined as "hostile".
"To finally conclude this report, with the area clear of hostile elements and us having successfully displayed the might of the Volkhan on the battlefield, I ordered my flight to return to Gorodok."
= we made all RP cease, shot all active players of all the factions and we won. Haha. Pvp for the win.
This is your roleplay? To show the power in battle? To introduce your pilots to the fun of shooting?
Get some real roleplay, I'd say. Something else beside "We shoot pixels because we can spell a name."
If you just want to be a terrorist organisation that is allowed to shoot everybody, then make an announcement on the forums, get a tag that identifies you on long range so that every player knows: "Ah, the 'we kill you all' guys are in my system, let's dock, I don't feel like "playing" with them".
Hiding pewpew-mentality behind the SCRA name (I cannot tell Katzians from Volkhans until I ask and then it is too late) is simply not fair if you are only after the blue messages.
IMG|Jack_Henderson, one of the people who actually like to RP even if it is "only" Dublin (that one can wipe clean...) .
Dun, dun, duuuuuuuuun. But on a more serious note. I think you've seen me recently Alla Alesky, and you probably saw me get shot with the Gaians. When this first started most of SCRA had loyalist (Volkhan's men) and Rebels. (Katz)
At first this was to avoid any in-fighting and hard feelings within the factions when we actually did end up having to shoot one another. Personally I don't own a loyalist character, and most of the rebels don't anymore either, since I took most of the newer recruits into rebels to boost activity.
As far as you and a fair few others getting blown up by the other SCRA, my apologies I wasn't there, so I have no idea what your exact complaint is this time. If you think the Volkhan was an RP idea made just to shoot you quicker, you can always make a comm thread, kiss rear, shake hands, and avoid getting shot by him, period. He does have the larger army afterall.
Yes there are two different players who leads the Loyalists and the Rebels. Alvin being the faction leader must of course oversee both sides but the actual key-players, those that make the Role-Play are two separate people, neither of them being Alvin.
He is more like the game-master of sorts to ensure that there is no foul play.
Some players are on both sides whilst others are only in one side. We try to keep the multi-classing at minimum but please remember that we are still one Faction, as in we don't possess the memberbase of two full Factions and as such we simply need certain individuals to be on both sides so events can actually happen with realistic amount of numbers.
I can understand your frustration with the way Volkhan operates, perhaps you do not enjoy its violent aspects but I expected you to appreciate the fact that there are two sides with completely different diplomacy setups. One day you walk past an SCRA and expect to get shot, instead he greets you and treats you with respect. The next day you spot another SCRA pilot and he opens fire on sight. Confusion is bound to happen but at the same time it gives a dynamic flavour to the Faction.
I do not think this Civil War is an excuse to form a sub-faction. In the end one side is going to win and that side will stay as the way the Faction operates.
I do not understand this comment about wiping Role-Play away, shooting is part of Role-Playing and violence is expected. Just as much as you would hire my Ghost Reaver to "wipe people" away from Dublin. Getting the feeling here that when my combat abilities are serving your interests it's completely fine and "good Role-Play" but should the opposite ever happen then these kinds of comments arrive at my doorstep. Or am I wrong for drawing that conclusion based on your positive feedback to the Reavers but rather negative feedback to the SCRA?
' Wrote:This was before the civil war happened, so back then forces were divided to Katz and Volkhan also ?
And Jayce Brooks was under Volkhan command ?
Ah, that. Excellent point, and I've actually been talking to Alvin about that myself, because I'm not extremely keen on the idea or the implications behind its usage.
I, however, dislike people abusing trust to run to other factions with data that is not theirs to discuss.
I have an FR2 for this reason. I will use it as I see fit to protect things that could damage the faction, diplomacy, etc... exactly as other factions do.
Ours is a bit more extreme, sure, but every single player in the Coalition/SCRA knows, right from the outset, that their characters live and die at my choice. I don't need a reason to kill a character in the Coalition, I can, and will do so if I feel it is needed.
I will not justify that, it's frankly, our faction business.
I can understand your frustration with the way Volkhan operates, perhaps you do not enjoy its violent aspects but I expected you to appreciate the fact that there are two sides with completely different diplomacy setups.
I'd like to see the diplomatic setup. Where can I read something about who the Volkhans shoot and who the Katzians? I don't believe there is anything like a "diplomatic setup" for the Volkhan group. I'd really be interested. Prove me that there is more than "we shoot everything... everytime... because we can." BEcause exactly this has been my experience every time I meet SCRA in Dublin.
Quote:One day you walk past an SCRA and expect to get shot, instead he greets you and treats you with respect. The next day you spot another SCRA pilot and he opens fire on sight. Confusion is bound to happen but at the same time it gives a dynamic flavour to the Faction.
I don't enjoy the "dynamic flavor" because the attempt to rolepay might very likely lead to my being banned for 4 hours from the system I love to play in. [No, I don't have chars that fly to the next sector to pew the people there. My roleplay is centered and fixed, so I can't take the 80 % risk at the moment to run into triggerhappy Volkhan-shoot-them-all-ups.]
My consequence: I will dock my ship and wait until the storm has blown. Your guys raided Dublin twice today, almost exactly 4 hours after the first one. IMG| Dublin did not even launch in numbers. You can guess the reason. If you go on like that, I can predict you will end like the Outcasts sitting in front of Java and no one even cares to show up because everybody went just: "Ah... no... let's dock."
Quote:I do not understand this comment about wiping Role-Play away, shooting is part of Role-Playing and violence is expected.
Depening heavily on the definition of roleplay. Roleplay as it must happen before an engagement... sure. I can get that. But in my opinion "real" roleplay has a topic (that is not: We will shoot you, you are all our enemies), it has a foundation in the faction (like: political views) and it is executed in a way that allows your partner to shape the outcome (not: we will shoot you, talk about Socialism and Workers... we are Volkhanists... let's get this over with).
And I should explain "wiping roleplay away": If you play in a fixed system and this system is cleaned twice in 6 hours, all people logg or are barred, you change the setup completely. Normally, a faction comes in, attacks a part of the players - actually their enemies... that is in Dublin almost never more than 1 faction or if it is, you should not be there because then you are likely FAR from home. Your guys attack EVERYBODY in Dublin.
That makes the damage to roleplay excessive... while normally e.g. only the Mollys get beaten up, you beat more than 1 faction out of the game. You thus kill interaction in a much larger scale than "normal enemies".
This is what I meant when I wrote "roleplay wipe".
Quote:Just as much as you would hire my Ghost Reaver to "wipe people" away from Dublin.
No, I guess now you see the difference. Ghost hits 1 party. He can kill a few. Never a complete faction, and never more than one faction. SCRA killed 2 completel factions today in Dublin (Molly, IMG) and this killed 2 of 3 active factions in Dublin (BMM doesn't count atm), effectively stopping roleplay there almost completely.
Quote:Getting the feeling here that when my combat abilities is serving your interests it's completely fine and "good Role-Play" but should the opposite ever happen then these kinds of comments arrive at my doorstep. Or am I wrong for drawing that conclusion based on your positive feedback to the Reavers but rather negative feedback to the SCRA?
Nah, it's not about me getting killed, because I lose most of the time (I'm used to it) and this time I even killed myself. =) It's not that. I am not fine with the above mentioned grave consequences of the SCRA raids on roleplay beacuse you cause much more damage than "normal" raids that target fewer people. Comparing Reavers and SCRA is not possible, imho. The one strike... almost surgically, a few targets, SCRA just uses the nuke, shoots everything up (that is my impression).
Well I can only explain the Rebel's Diplomatic Standings since my main character is there, I do have a Volkhan-sided character but it's only used to even numbers during events. Else I'm almost 90% of the time playing as Lukas Wexler.
The Rebel's Diplomatic Standings is pretty simple as they are a copy-paste of the former SCRA diplomatic standings.
I cannot comment on the way Volkhan's regime operates as I'm not experienced in that area, but I do know that they retain basically the same goals as the former SCRA but the methods to achieve them are more brutal, more violent and more aggressive. Where Katz would focus on agreements with different parties to further the Coalition Movement, the Volkhan would simply use direct force against entities that disagree with him. At least that is how I have perceived their recent actions, but please note that I'm not an expert on this side so don't take my word for it.
It also makes sense given Volkhan's initial "propaganda" message that was directed at throwing mud at Katz for his diplomatic failures. Claiming he had grown soft forming too many deals that divert the Coalition's attention towards fulfilling diplomatic promises rather than strengthening the movement's position in Sirius.
Perhaps this has given you a bit of an insight as to why they are hostile to a Faction such as the IMG whom were in good terms with the former Coalition Establishment. Perhaps Volkhan understood that you were "in good terms" with the Rebels and wanted to continuously attack your Faction in an attempt to damage your relationship with the Rebels thus making it that much harder for the Rebels as they depend on every ally they can get. A wise move I would say.
Now going into specifics about the Dublin System, I guess this is just related to the Rebels current location, they come and go from Bretonia, but Dublin is also directly connected to Omega-49 and Omega-50 where a lot of the current action is going on between the Loyalists and the Rebels. Volkhan's Forces utilizing raids against the Bretonian House are most likely for two reasons, the first being to of course forward their movement through the means of direct force: "Surrender to the Volkhan or face dire consequences." as well as trying to root out Factions that might harbour the Rebels.
Finally, as for the definition about real Role-Play, well bringing the Reavers as an example again, their "real Role-Play" is about hunting targets and fulfilling hit-contracts. That has almost entirely to do with engagements, the Volkhan follows a similar aggressive approach but is after completely different goals. How can one be validated when the other is not?
Quote:At least that is how I have perceived their recent actions, but please note that I'm not an expert on this side so don't take my word for it.
Thank you for the attempts to explain it.
I would appreciate it if a Volkhan-ist expert could comment on what their roleplay is like and how other roleplayers can interact with them in a way that is not "pew" or "surrender or we pew!".
Quote:Finally, as for the definition about real Role-Play, well bringing the Reavers as an example again, their "real Role-Play" is about hunting targets and fulfilling hit-contracts. That has almost entirely to do with engagements, the Volkhan follows a similar aggressive approach but is after completely different goals. How can one be validated when the other is not?
That was a good question and I needed to think about it. Now I have the difference pinned down:
It is:
a) disappointed expectations. Meaning: If I see the label "bounty hunters" or "Merc company", I expect Reaver-style of roleplay. It is perfectly acceptable for a faction that is created to fill that "slot" in a rather complex roleplay environment.
But: SCRA do not belong into that slot, imho. They offered non-shooting-roleplay before, now they (meaning: Volkhanists) don't. So my expectations are disappointed which makes the SCRA pew-action less acceptable than the Reaver-pew roleplay.
b) Egoistic approach: Mercs may not create a lot of roleplay according to my defintition. But: They are a diplomatic tool in inter-faction roleplay, so they contribute by their existance, by offering the pewpew-service to those parties who can't do it themselves, lack skill, equipment, political will, etc... so Mercs contribute, even though their main line of business is actually destructive.
SCRA Volkhanist kill-them-all-raid offers nothing to the Dublin environment but the egoistic pleasure of the participants. Nothing is created (except perhaps some nice fighting for those who love to fight in unorganised Indy-hordes with general low skill against well organised experiences maxxed SCRA ships). The fun is... kind of... not exactly equally distributed (my personal opinion).
These 2 factors make the difference for me, why Merc roleplay like the Reavers (your example) are fine while the same actions (shooting up things) is not fine with a faction like SCRA.
If you do not want to be shot, I suggest a transport or a mining ship, to guarantee that you do not.
As for other explanations, I suggest you follow the rather substantial RP on the forums surrounding them. I also recommend you go back about 2 years and take a look at SCRA diplomacy at that period, and once compared you will understand.
Thanks for your concern, but if you die and are barred from the system "you love" for 4 hours, that is not a problem for us, but rather one you should take up with the Admins who set that Policy.
Edit: Oh, and here's another... fun... thought, have you ever contacted a member of the Volkhanists AFTER the raid is conducted to ask permission to re-enter the system? If it is for RP purposes, and not to get your pew on, you might find them very very reasonable in granting that permission.
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