To quote Igiss when going over the faction creation rules:
Quote:All ship and weapon choices are subject to the restrictions belonging to the faction's primary ID, NOT the specialized IDs. The specialized ID does NOT provide access to ships or weapons that are forbidden to the primary ID.
Now, we know factions can use generic IDs under special considerations. Normally this wouldn't be a pertinent question, since the official faction could just grant their weapons to their special group through tech permissions. But what of the case of an unofficial faction that has a subgroup?
The example is a Molly faction with ships that fly under their tag with a Merc ID. Would the Merc ID'd ships, under that faction's tag, follow the Molly row on the tech chart instead of the Mercenary row? Or would they have to wait until the faction is official to grant the guns or get the right to use them?
Those rules only apply to factions that are official or those applying for official status.
With that said, if the Molly faction is official, they stated they were using a Merc ID as a specialized ID, and the Merc ID'd ships fly the faction tag there is no need for listing them under the tech permission listing as they are part of the faction. However, even though they have a Merc ID, per Igiss' guidelines they follow the technology usage of the Molly ID. Meaning, they can't use Corsair weaponry as it is red cell to the Molly ID, even though it is white cell to the Merc ID.
If the Molly faction is unofficial their subgroup cannot use Molly technology with the Merc ID, as the administration hasn't approved the faction. I say this, because this would be a work around for the current technology permission system if it was allowed.
That is strictly reading the rule and interpreting it myself. Personally? If the unofficial Molly faction is out there role playing the Mollys, I don't see why they can't operate in the same fashion as an official without the faction rights, meaning they can use a Merc ID, tagged in the faction, and use Molly ships and guns.
I could be wrong. You raise a interesting question.
' Wrote:With that said, if the Molly faction is official, they stated they were using a Merc ID as a specialized ID, and the Merc ID'd ships fly the faction tag there is no need for listing them under the tech permission listing as they are part of the faction. However, even though they have a Merc ID, per Igiss' guidelines they follow the technology usage of the Molly ID. Meaning, they can't use Corsair weaponry as it is red cell to the Molly ID, even though it is white cell to the Merc ID.
If the Molly faction is unofficial their subgroup cannot use Molly technology with the Merc ID, as the administration hasn't approved the faction. I say this, because this would be a work around for the current technology permission system if it was allowed.
This sums it up rather nicely and is mostly how I see it. Official factions give permission for weapons and if the faction isn't official then you run into more problematic turf. The Merc, lacking a faction to ask for permission to use their weapons would need to seek other less controversial weapons that are allowed by his Merc ID and do not require permission to use.
How i judge it is by what tag I see above the ship. If the ship in question has a Merc ID but a molly tag I will assume at that point that while he may be a "gun for hire" he has chosen his camp and now has restrictions - aka you are essentially a pseudo-Molly. If I then go and chase up the character and find that yes, the faction actually has given permission for that player to use their weapons then the relationship is even more concrete.
If a player has no tag, but is sporting Molly weapons with permission then I also see this as evidence of choosing a camp. However, the Role play consequences of this scenario in my mind can also have a potential impact:
"Corsair - Hey, Merc? You have molly weapons"
"Merc (with no tag) er.. yeah, i do"
"Corsair... (insert expletives here)."
The Merc of course, having got permission to use them is fine by the rules but there are still as I see it Role play consequences to be had.
Dunno if this helps answer the question Zapp, this is my take on it.
Well Laowai, we're taking it a step farther. The Merc has a Molly IFF, Molly guns, and also is part of the Molly faction, albeit a subsection that does mercenary work such as bounty hunting for Molly allies and escorting transports bound for Molly territory.
You haven't commented on the [M] thread in awhile, you may want to step over there and read up on it a bit.
' Wrote:Well Laowai, we're taking it a step farther. The Merc has a Molly IFF, Molly guns, and also is part of the Molly faction, albeit a subsection that does mercenary work such as bounty hunting for Molly allies and escorting transports bound for Molly territory.
Ok, well in that case he is, for all intents and purposes, a Molly. With similar restrictions.
The safest way to do this is to not have them sign up the mollies in such an obvious way. Keep the mercs as neutral as possible in terms of armament and IFF and have Role play agreements.- There will still be Role Play consequences of course but in the scenario you're describing I would simply see a Molly at that point.
Convoy escorting btw is fine, if that's all it is - (So not raiding mind you) if you are having a convoy fly out of Liberty Rogue territory bound for Arranmore and it flies to Liberty and back with a couple of Molly snubs i dont have a problem with this. ZOI here is a little flexible. We had this argument some time ago with regards to Corsair ships showing up in Liberty - If the number was kept to a minimum, Ships no larger than fighters or bombers and they were doing their utmost to stay off the radar then that wasn't a problem. So i dont see an issue with Molly ID'd ships doing the same.
' Wrote:You haven't commented on the [M] thread in awhile, you may want to step over there and read up on it a bit.
Zapp, as far as the rules go, I don't think you can do this until the Molly faction is official. Take some other mercenary group for example, they can make an unofficial Blood Dragon group, and then make Merc's with those IFF's flying Katanas wherever they want. This is somewhat going around the rules.
Now, what you -can- do, and probably should, is work with Rogues who -can- grant you the Molly equipment, until the Molly faction is on it's feet.
So, basically, have the leader of this unofficial group contact the leader of the Rogues and ask him to approve of this until the Molly faction becomes official. This, however, wouldn't be possible for other groups, since Rogue/Molly tech is rather unique in their sharing.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
Quote:The example is a Molly faction with ships that fly under their tag with a Merc ID. Would the Merc ID'd ships, under that faction's tag, follow the Molly row on the tech chart instead of the Mercenary row? Or would they have to wait until the faction is official to grant the guns or get the right to use them?
Following Molly row on the chart and being allowed to use Molly guns are two different things.
If I remember correctly, a rule is stating that when there is no official faction for granting tech, then you can still use this tech with forum RP. I believe that talking to the unofficial Molly faction counts as sufficient forum RP, no ?
I too am leaning towards using Molly ID and Freelancer tag instead. That way, you'd be able to follow tech row, and you can also hunt wherever you want, if admins approve of it.
You also won't get tempted to use bases Mollys wouldn't use and such things.
You'd still primarily be Mollys, which is good.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.