Raekur please calm down , we are only trying to explain this to you. Also , I see your point of view and that is why we are trying to help you understand some of the RP concept of this server better.
Now , since my chosen faction ingame is The Order , I'll try to explain the aspects of our war with you (as best I can , I'm sure that there are more to it that I know of )
Now , the Order's home system and home planet is Omicrion Minor with it's planet Toledo. The Order protects it's couse and is believed to be the final stand between the Nomads and the general human population within Sirius. Now , we also tend to protect what we have learned and how far we have evolved / Technology speaking / - in simple terms we protect our weapons and nomad research from the other houses / factions. Now as the Bounty Hunter legion grew stronger and there resoarces reached that of a House / that means alot / they desided to expand into the uncharted for them Omicron systems and seek better technologies to further enchance there presence and authority. The Order on the other hand was and still is stricktly against the expantion of the Bounty Hunters , because by doing so , they tend to steal Order technology and invade Order space. That is the reason the war started. The Order is on the defencive side of the war / protecting our home system and planet from the Bounty Hunters / and the BH's are in the role of invaders who violently atack us on many ocassions. The way I see it , the Order was far more advanced in the early years of the war and was able to destroy the invading BH forces , but that changed when the Bounty Hunters developed there own capital ship line / wich I might state is the best avalable in the game / and thus the war continued.
The Bounty Hunters atack the Order , yes they do not get payed for that directly with credits collecting bounties , but in the big picture they wage that war for technology and from that technology they can earn even more money. Thats what it is all about , no matter what the sittuation the Bounty Hunters only take action when there is something they want involed. Wheater it's money or techology , they need to have something to fight for. No person who is proud to call himself a Bounty Hunter will take action in exchange for nothing folowed by a "Thanks for the help -name- " .
Edit - About the "ex-con" matter. It is accepted by the comunity ( or I think it is , correct me if I'm wrong ) , that most of the Bounty Hunter pilots are retired pirate's or ex-convicts. But that is actually a good thing for them , in some way's , because they are familiar with how the pirating of a given faction works and when the pirate's operation is valnurable to atack , after all there was a time when they where probly doing the same as the pirates they are hunting now.
' Wrote:I never stated that I wanted to fly all over and shoot pirates on sight did I?
As to the belief that bounty hunters ships are commanded by ex-cons, really STUPID.
Thats like saying that the local police force is willing to give an informant a gun and turn him loose.
Based on your opinion Robert, maybe BH should be removed since even the NPC's dont even follow your opinion of how they are supposed to act and then everyone can be just mercs.
You love saying that BH only do things if they get paid, so why is the war continuing with the Order?
All that the war does is use up resources that could be used to fight the Nomads.
Oh and robert, try reading your cut and paste before posting.
Pilot carrying this ID has joined the Zoners. Zoner ID grants its owner right to trade, escort traders, hunt pirates and terrorists, fulfil bounty contracts, participate in military operations on lawful side. Zoner ID owner cannot participate in any unlawful actions.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime.
All this crap towards BH sounds like pirate players who want to eliminate a force they would rather not have to worry about.
Okay, many members of the Bounty Hunters Guild are ex-criminals, hence the Guild's knowledge of pirate hideouts and jump hole networks. It's in the infocards; the Guild Core ships might be piloted by more disciplined Guild members, but the fighters can and are piloted by ex-cons, adventurers, ex-police/military, etc. The Guild Core however is much like an efficient military: utilising expensive and effective technology and force towards the Order and the Nomads.
You do realise that there are two main sections of the Guild: the Hunting contingent and the Guild Core. The Guild Core is solely funded by the bounties collected by the lower Hunters. The Guild Core was set up to research nomads and expand into Omicron space. The reason why they are at war with the Order is because the Order resisted this expansion, and possibly despised a rival research group. The Guild Core cannot research the nomads to their full extent with the Order in their way. Hence, they are trying to defeat them in a fairly lopsided war (from what I see), to open up pathways further into the Omicron systems. The Guild Core are not concerned with money at all - as they were set up to research nomads - so your point about the Omicron War is null and void.
So I forgot one thing to replace. The point still stands: both factions have a lawful ID, which is copy + pasted from faction to faction. Zoners can act in the exact same way as Bounty hunters, or House Militaries for that instance, if you only go by the ID and not the background.
By the way, I have 3 (soon to be 4) Bounty Hunter characters, and I play them a lot. I'm sure you'll find the major opposition to the Bounty Hunters Guild is concerned with OORP BHG ID holders, instead of a witch-hunt against a potential enemy.
since it has degraded into an //ooc debate. - a few things...
naming:
pointing out at the "BOUNTY hunters" does not go too far. - actually, the BHG are the mercenaries and the mercenaries / freelancers are the bounty hunters when it comes to their role. - merceanries / freelancers take up "on-the-spot-deals" to satisfy their short term needs. - some of them bunched up together ( formed mercenary clans ) to achieve more lasting contracts.
in a way - that is what the BHG did. - only it was the NPCs that did it. they bunched up together and formed the guild. as a guild, they are not too much after the little deal about the crook anymore, but they are doing ..... *drum roll* the more lasting contracts, like assisting in the protection of house space. - that is why you find BHGs at jumpholes rather than police - but in house space. - all those wings of BHGs are not doing the personal bounty, - it is more - they get some shabby wages and a provision for each criminal they catch. but they are not studying the newsletter about criminals all over sirius and head from liberty to rheinland to kusari to bretonia to catch someone. they stay at their designated space.
so the LPI bounty is actually what the BHG is supposed to do. - they catch criminals for a small fee in a specific space. they are not so much going after "one special person" as any other faction ( remember - HEAD hunting is what NPC missions are when they ask for a specific person to be caught or killed ).
about the role and its attitudes towards the guild:
i would be glad if people differentiated more between what they want as a player and what they want as a character ingame. - a character ingame would be delighted to see a guildship around, ( unless he is doing something wrong ) - BHG ships never attack a lawful ( let aside obvious game engine problems with pilots / caught criminals ) - that is mostly, cause they follow the very same scripts as the NPC police. - but if we take NPC behaviour as a base of what we RP, then the hysteria about the BHG is nothing i see based in RP, but only in a PLAYERS wish to get rid of them.. which, in some cases, i can understand - but that should be discussed other than like that. ( in terms of an ooRP violation and a report if a BHG acts well outside its parameters - just like any other faction )
So sometimes, it feels like players want to punish the BHG for something - when it should be the characters determining the RP. i already wrote it in the alaska thread and i repeat it again. - i am sure the navy would like nothing more than to ban all BHGs out of alaska. - ( inchar and out-of-char )
but the BHG are in alaska, they did not break a liberty law ( RP law ) by doing so, cause they came form a place that the navy did not know about ( minor JH ).
banning the BHG would have been totally ooRP. opening fire on them would have been ooRP, too. why is that so? - if i was the navy, and out of the nebula came 3 different signals... one nomad, one order and one BHG. i would be utterly delighted to know that the BHG is maybe not on my side, - but most certainly not against me.
i can still see the players *wishing* to fire on the BHG rather than the order or the nomads. - just like the order likes to fire on the BHG more than the nomads. - its some sort of "educational measures* - of thinking of punishing the BHG for things they do by firing on them - even when the RP suggests to do something different.
result:
the problem with the game is - that the BHG has no way to punish the goverment in the way they would do if it was a REAL simulation with all complexity. - in such a case, the BHG would say "alright then, you don t want us - we leave" - and they would leave ... and liberty would be overrun by pirates that crawled out of their jumpholes ( that the navy does not know about ( again, the CHARs don t know about it, while the players do ) ) they would overwhelm the borderstations easily and would have a much easier stand against the lawfuls.
the BHG ingame does not have these powers cause the engine does not provide us with enough feedback about a force missing. - its like the zoners power. which lays in supporting materials ( essential materials ) to the unlawfuls. - the unlawfuls would die ( literally ) if the zoners would not assist them. - yet, they cannot play that trump.
if would be nice when more roleplay was done inchar and not influenced much by what the players want. i can see where its coming from when liberty wants to ban all BHG warships. - but i daresay that its rather a players wish than a RP wish. if everyone stuck to their RP, those warships would never mean any danger. - to in inChar, we have to assume that everyone sticks to their RP. - we cannot justify a faction by what a few do, but must assess a faction by what it is meant to be.
warships of the BHG will not fulfil a contract in the houses. thats a matter of fact. they will not hunt criminals, nor will they sign up into military operations that are house business. BUT they are allowed to fly there. - their operational space is the omicrons. but that doesn t mean they cannot travel into the coreworlds. they can chill out there, resupply and exchange the latest news. - their crew might want to have a rest on Cortez or Manhatten, while the ship is moored. - there is no RP problem with that at all.
On paper the BH id looks pretty much like the Zoner id; the faction description however says allies are House Police. To what extent we are allies is determined in-game and through diplomatic channels (the KSP wont be as friendly as the LPI) but still allies and therefore open to offers of help. If the Liberty authorities say "hey please do this" then I think we should comply. If they start making threats we should talk, but still comply. The actions of one or two people will affect the reputation of us all.
@Eternal: It's the Bounty Hunters Guild; the Bounty Hunters Legion is an unofficial faction. They havent been around for about a month now, but I think they'll be back.
The ship info cards can't always determine RP, but I think the BH ones are pretty clear on the purpose of the BH capship line. There is a mention of the Destroyer being made in Liberty shipyards so there is some justification, however flimsy, for one being there BUT the fact that theyt are now found in Omega 15 only says that maybe the info card is a little outdated.
Let's try to keep the tone positive and constructive shall we?
Quote:I eventually would like to lead a wing of Bounty Hunters. Hopefully we could show the server that Bounty Hunting doesn't equal killing pirates on sight. Is this your belief "The ID allows it, and the houses are getting owned by unlawfuls, so I'll screw the roleplay background and do whatever I want".
Well there are people trying to do that already. I've assigned all of my members to Liberty under pretty strict restrictions to work on the LPI bounty and RP is our priority. I'd appreciate if experienced (or inexpereienced) players could look at our faction description and give some feedback. (The Search/Destroy Agency in my sig below - new members welcome (shameless plug))
I understand why bounty hunters dont say things to their bounties everytime because alot of them like to run and hide but come on if you have them lined up and they havnt shot at you yet try and get in at least 1 line of RP in.
Thread isn't about that; it's about BHers being welcome in Liberty and resolving, as Jinx so succinctly put it, a player problem that affects characters. Let's not air our complaints and grievances about combat here.
Quote:No person who is proud to call himself a Bounty Hunter will take action in exchange for nothing folowed by a "Thanks for the help -name- " .
I was going to make a point about one of my characters having a bit of a conscience that might cause him to get involved to help someone who really needed it, but that leaves me open to the accusation of being a PvP whore. Shame that RP becomes too restricted.