(11-05-2013, 11:35 PM)Kosa Wrote: In all I believe inflating money in game (Like cutting the profit on the trade runs and making everything a bit more expensive) would help boosting activity. But I +1 the idea to lower NPC and Gate strength.
Most likely not going to happen.
It would punish people who don't already possess obscene amounts of cash (namely newer players)
Quote:My demand was 10 million, his cargo was worth 25 million
If only most pirates were as trader/genre-savvy as you, huh?
MOST pirates give the same demand to everyone.
Now, I haven't actually encountered a pirate in ages, other than one dude who got shot to bits.
Thier problem I guess, I used to trade a lot when I first started so I know valueable cargo when I see it, I also know that most ore is worth 7000-11000 per unit (which is bad for the miners ,
If I see unknown cargo, or not sure whether they've just picked the cargo up or are arriving at intended destination, I'll be flexible with my demands and let them negotiate, in the case of ore traders, I've been getting a lot of "but I have no money" recently, in those cases, I drain thier hull as much as possible, and most of them magically materialize money they never said they never had in the first place to pay me... very strange
Quote:But he was a good example.
I just recently got back into Discovery.
I did /restart beginner to get the gull transport.
Otherwise I could, maybe, barely, afford a camara or other small freighter after quite a bit of trading.
My expected profit on a single cargo, even if I don't load up my ship with turrets/other things that now take up cargo space... is approximately 2 mill per run. More often than not, I will only get 1.6
The cargo itself costs 1.2 mill perhaps.
The pirate demanded 2 mill, as most pirates do.
OORP, if I want to come out ontop of this transaction? Dying is more valid.
I lose less from dying and I can just go about trading elsewhere.
The pirate will make, tops 100k from selling my materials, because as a pirate, his choices of unloading the cargo is limited. As is his cargo hold.
So if I feel malicious, I could just piss all over his rp and suicide.
Running is more profitable, more often than not.
Statistically speaking anyway.
Because a lot of pirates are blind to profit/time and profit/cargo size.
This is true, it's both the fault of the pirate, and the fact that cargo is so cheap to buy, that guy has probably waited there for 10 minutes or even more, 50% of traders illogically refuse to pay pirates, or try to flee, the best you'll get in an hour is 5 successful pirate attempts, that's a poxy 10 million an hour.
And most pirates don't do it for the money, profit/hour is not their concern, if they wanted to make money they'd mine or trade. The money you make is just an added bonus.
Quote:But that's just the numbers.
The fact that the instant you get in range, you're guaranteed to get hit by a CD probably doesn't help, but that's irrellevant.
The point was, he made a demand that, unless the pilot playing the trader is doing one of those hardcore metagame traders or is REALLY COMMITTED to his roleplay, all he really stands to lose from getting pirated is often just time.
He could always log a diff. character and trade in other systems.
The pirates stand to lose very little, because most traders, or transports (mostly the pilots but sometimes the ships) are crud. Crud ships with crud pilots (at least as far as big, clunky ships are concerned) make for very low-tier threats.
We get enough troube from the Navy/Police, each time I'm ganked and killed it costs me around 1 million to reful my ammo/bots, less than most traders pay for cargo which is REALLY annoying. Having to worry about a transport killing you should not be a concern.
Quote:Unless something shows up to help him.
Now, I'm very used to being a transport/freighter pilot, so I can't speak for other people's dodging ability in ships that gain very little from trying to turret-view you (compared to something like a gunboat)... but the pirate could hit me.
And then two hogosha pilots showed up, and you know, my trader was kusari and... well, hogosha don't like foreigners.
You can probably imagine the outcast gunboat that tried to rob me had to focus on the fighters who came out of the tradelane and decided to help their fellow countryman and... didn't fare well.
I knew the hogosha were going to show because they were already headed my way before the pirate even showed up, I know I can hold my own at least until the next planet, he also tried to completely waste my entire effort by demanding more credits than the worth of my profits AND THEN SOME.
And, you know, I'm okay with that, I guess. I'll try to RP my way out of it, if I can...
But I also didn't trust the pirate to be lenient.
You can probably tell, just by this example (being the only pirate I have encountered since beta ended, and I've met a lot of people just trading..) that things add up.
And the traders just decide to cut their losses.
Yeah, the cargo might sell for 25 million or whatever. but if he already had to pay 15mil, 10 mill is his profit. He is probably not the most disco-savvy person, either, because a lot of people think they can make it, even when they can't.
He would rather chance 5 mill for 10 mill rather than spend another fifteen minutes not making a profit at all.
I'm not saying you're in the wrong (or in the right), I'm just saying, very often, the incentive to run far outweighs the incentive to pay, and by proxy, the incentive to try to negotiate with or trick the pirate into lowering his price.
Because only once have I seen a pirate lower his demand, and I think I mentioned that already. He was basically being nice to a newb at the time.
I've played a pirate, I know it's frustrating when a trader or miner won't even give you the time of day and actually RP.
But it works both ways.
Edit: As for lawfuls.
I generally don't play those.
We have enough of them and I haven't really had the drive to make one (other than maybe a BHunter).
So I can't speak in their behalf on this.
I know, most traders I see will run, it's almost like they've never encoutered a pirate before and just think "oh a small ship, no problem I'll just cruise away".
This is the problem, if they've just undocked, they're only losing a million or so in credits, this shoudn't be the case, like I said before if the players are gonna a nice amount of money if they get blown up, this will simulate "fear for thier lives".
I hope they increase the price of cargo purcahse, but that's probably never going to happen, there should be high risk investments in this game, invest 40 million to fill a 5K but it sells for say 100 million or whatever. You can still fill a 5K with a million if you want, but your ROI should be significatly less.
Wait....so some guys are suggesting that Cargo should be worth more in order to "scare" traders into complying with Pirate demands....while other guys are complaining in other threads that there's "too much money" in Disco, and that there should be more inflation to make all that money more worthless.
So, what's the problem? Is there too much money? Not enough money? Or just not enough savvy traders who know how to deal with pirates?
But...to digress...this thread is about Jump Gate turrets. I'd say just make them GB strength all around.
If cargo was more expensive, when a trader gets blown up, that money is taken out of he economy 90% of the time as the pirate doesn't have a transport friend about.
Even then, it would encourage group piracy and cargo piracy would be a viable option., trader doesn't want to pay? Blow him up and have your friend tractor in the cargo.
Yesterday I blew a guy up who was carrying 50 million worth of ore, he had a miner friend with him, who waited by the cargo (probably for his friend to arrive to tractor it), they both said they'd pay me after they dock and sell cargo as they don't have any money at the moment (LOL). My demand was a very reasonable 10 million, then after I blew him up, I demanded 5 million from his friend so he could wait by the cargo for someone else to pick it up, he wouldn't pay, so I shot all of the cargo.
Then the guy who I blew up came back in a Colonial Battleship, and said "you blew me up, I'm going to kill you".
So they guy has a BS but can't afford to pay a pirate 20% of the value of the cargo he's carrying, pretty bad logic there.
Funny stuff (I don't know why this is relevant to anything, but I felt like telling someone).
If I see him again I'm going to charge him 70% of the value.
Quote:Then the guy who I blew up came back in a Colonial Battleship, and said "you blew me up, I'm going to kill you".
So they guy has a BS but can't afford to pay a pirate 20% of the value of the cargo he's carrying, pretty bad logic there.
Okay, so that's not even legal...and ideally that player should have a rule violation report filed against him/her. Again...this seems to be a "people are stupid" problem, not a "there's too much money" problem.
Majority of pirates are just as guilty as majority of traders for not being talkative.
Pirates wants the money faster and be at lower risk of being ratted out to lawfuls.
Traders wants to either escape to save money, or to pay faster to save time.
So in both cases, it's perfectly inRP to be either fast-demanding-pirate or let-me-pay-and-be-done trader.
No sane pirate would keep on talking with corporate shipper. And no sane corporate shipper would like to be subjected to pirate for longer than one needs.
EDIT: And pirates should not camp gates. It is not fair to traders, it is not proper tactic inRP and it's just being lazy.
Now stop whining, and play the game. If you are pirate, you WILL be shot at. And that's fine.
Quote:Then the guy who I blew up came back in a Colonial Battleship, and said "you blew me up, I'm going to kill you".
So they guy has a BS but can't afford to pay a pirate 20% of the value of the cargo he's carrying, pretty bad logic there.
Okay, so that's not even legal...and ideally that player should have a rule violation report filed against him/her. Again...this seems to be a "people are stupid" problem, not a "there's too much money" problem.
I would have but I couldn't be bothered as nothing was done about the last few reports I filed, what did make me laugh was the fact that he said in the chat that he was going to kill me bacause I killed him ten minutes ago, he also demanded 25 million (half of the cargo value) from me before he tried to kill me.
Why he came back in a battleship when I was in a bomber I'll never know,, I could have just thrusted away. But I fought back for fun, fired a load of novas at him from a safe distance, then a VHF decided to join the party so I ran away.
(11-06-2013, 09:24 PM)Snak3 Wrote: EDIT: And pirates should not camp gates. It is not fair to traders, it is not proper tactic inRP and it's just being lazy.
Now stop whining, and play the game. If you are pirate, you WILL be shot at. And that's fine.
Not fair on trader? It's not fair that I'm ganked by 3 Navy VHFs constantly, not fair that my cloak is useless if I want to run because they can just fire constant CDs at me until my fuel runs out.
If they fix the "if you're locked onto a cloaked vessel you can still fire missiles" problem, I'd camp a lane.
Until then, I refuse to be ganked by lolwut Navy players that just want an easy target.
Besides which, 50% of the traders coming through the gate have the option to get out of the lane when they see red on thier scanner, but that doesn't happen often anyway.
(11-06-2013, 09:24 PM)Snak3 Wrote: EDIT: And pirates should not camp gates. It is not fair to traders, it is not proper tactic inRP and it's just being lazy.
Now stop whining, and play the game. If you are pirate, you WILL be shot at. And that's fine.
Not fair on trader? It's not fair that I'm ganked by 3 Navy VHFs constantly, not fair that my cloak is useless if I want to run because they can just fire constant CDs at me until my fuel runs out.
If they fix the "if you're locked onto a cloaked vessel you can still fire missiles" problem, I'd camp a lane.
Until then, I refuse to be ganked by lolwut Navy players that just want an easy target.
Besides which, 50% of the traders coming through the gate have the option to get out of the lane when they see red on thier scanner, but that doesn't happen often anyway.
Mann up. If you are being caught by lawfuls, you are doing it wrong in the first place.
If you want to see how proper piracy is conducted, I invite you to join The Crew and see that one does not even need a cloak to pirate succefully.
What if I told you... that traders usually transfer the money to their pirate accounts?
Either way, people whining about there being too much money in the game?
Do you even save up for ships, mate?
Especially if you're looking to upgrade a trader.
On a trader with 1000 cargo? Expect maybe 3-5 mill, unpirated, in an hour. Due to travel distance.
Looking to upgrade your ship? Expect to shell out, say, 40 mill.
That's 8 hours work of just lugging cargo.
You die? You lose, usually, half your time and have to go elsewhere, including uptowards 1.5 mill if the cargo is right.
Which is the price of a crud tier fighter, without guns.
The only people who have massive amounts of money have big tradeships with a lot of time sunk into them.
Even back when I had a sizable amount of cash, spending it on one of my other ships was a tough question.
Creating an inflation doesn't make any sense.
People trade to make a profit, the fact that people trade creates RP, no matter how scant said RP is.
And the money they get? Shoved over to a character that can better use it. To RP.
also
Jump gates were powerful until disco, because the ships didn't have so much armor and shields.
And people didn't have access to battleships.
You would think it would get rebalanced to match.
As it has.
(11-06-2013, 11:11 PM)Dratai Wrote: Jump gates were powerful until disco, because the ships didn't have so much armor and shields.
And people didn't have access to battleships.
You would think it would get rebalanced to match.
As it has.