Corsair Fighters Idea

[Carlos_Benitez]

Disclaimer: This is not my area of expertise, so bear with me, and please don't hurl rotten vegetables. This is only an idea.

It's been a good many years since the single-player campaign, when Titans (the Tank of VHFs) and Centurions (VHF wannabe) where the Elite Corsair fighters of choice.
It is my opinion that with limited resources but vast ingenuity and technical skill, Corsair engineers would be much more likely to upgrade existing Fighters over time, rather than replace them with new designs.

To that end, I have a (probably controversial) proposal with elements of ideas other people have hinted at before.

In Vanilla, the Centurion was rather oddly classified as the largest HF, rather than being given the VHF status it probably deserved. Writers of vanilla Freelancer faqs have raised the issue of the Centurion a number of times in their work. If it wheren't for the existance of the Titan as "the Corsair VHF" the Centurion would probably hold that Title. It's also a ship that's sadly rarely seen being flown.

We then have the issue of Corsair Ship Manouvreability. Some people look at the Titan and immediately think "It's the biggest and bulkiest, therefore Corsair ships must be the biggest abd bulkiest around."
Then, there are people in the other camp, who look at the Vanilla infocards which claim the Corsair line is one of the fastest around, and consider the possibility that the Titan was a one-off experiment and that the rest of the ship line ought to be very manoeuvrable.
"Built for speed and agility, the Corsairs rely on their ability to get out of trouble as quickly as they can get into it."
I tend to be in the second camp.

M3 Class- Vanilla Legionnaire. "Built for Speed and Agility"

M5 Class- Decurion Light Fighter. Currently a bit poor. (will be improved in next mod release, I believe)

M6 Class- Original (pre Freelancer) Centurion. "Hand of Mephisto" mentioned in Centurion infocard.

M7 Class- Vanilla Centurion based on the M6 class.

M10 Class- Vanilla Titan.

My proposal is to give both the Titan and Centurion an upgrade, and thus also shift their roles a little.
The Legionnaire need not be mentioned, as it already has an upgraded form.

I propose the M10 class be replaced, in the mod, by the M10.5 class Advanced Titan.
I propose the M7 class be replaced in the mod by the M7.5 class Advanced Centurion.

The models (as far as I'm aware, and I'm not an expert in this field) need not be changed.

___________________________________________________________________________
M7.5 Class Advanced Centurion. Very Heavy Fighter.

Changes;

• Increased Power Plant, although less than current Titan.
  
• Slightly improved armour plating (though not close to current Titan armour)
  
• Appropriate increase of Bats/Bots to coinside with increase of armour.
  
• Made able to equip a Level 10 shield (current L9)
  
• Significantly improved agility. (perhaps greater than Sabre, to balance with weaker weaponry)
  
• Reclassified as VHF.
  

With these enhancements to the Centurion, it over-takes the Titan in it's ability in dogfight situations. Thus, the Titan's role is re-assessed. The Centurion becomes the favoured dogfighter used by the Corsairs.
___________________________________________________________________________
M10.5 Class Advanced Titan. Super Heavy Fighter.

Changes;

• Very slightly increased power-plant.
  
• Further reduced agility.
  
• Removal of 1 class 10 gun. Replaced by a Cruise Disruptor Slot (in addition to existing CD/Torp slot)
  
• Increased cargo hold. 70 units increased to 140+ units
  

Due to the shortfalls of the basic M10 class in a dogfighting role, and with the improvements made to the Centurion, the Titan receives it's own set of upgrades and is redesigned as a Super Heavy Fighter intended for use in piracy, rather than in battle. The most significant change to the Titan to fill this role is the replacement of one of the guns with an additional Cruise Disruptor hard point. This change allows the Titan to carry both a Cruise Disruptor and a light torpedo (Mini Razor or Sunslayer) for use in disabling target transport vessels. Cargo hold was increased to allow the Advanced Titan to carry more loot gained from piracy.
___________________________________________________________________________

This is only an idea, mind, and for all I know, might be a bad one. That's not my call.
However, implementing this would show that the Corsair ship-line is dynamic, continually changing and evolving. "The Corsairs' survival is rooted in their ability to survive and adapt".
This, I believe, would also result in less moans from the Corsairs (we are a moany bunch) and perhaps a bit more balance between the Corsairs and their opponents, without worrying about new models and etc.
The reduction of the Titan's turning speed (due to increased cargo) would make it even more useless against fighters, but the ship would excell in piracy due to it's powerplant and ability to equip both a CD and Small Torp, and it's ability to carry away more loot.
Meanwhile, the Centurion really does become the "Centurion" within the Corsair army, the standard combat vessel in the fleet.

What do people think?

---

[Jazz]

I like it, although I dont fly 'sair anymore, I see where your coming from.

---

Some say that he is allergic to a fungus found only between the toes of Corsairs,
and that he is oblivious to 98% of Liberty Law. All we know is...
He's called the Busdriver!

[Bjorn]

Right i like the idea. I still remember how was it to fly titan. It is slow, heavy, and can double as weapon platform. Now, since this + pretorians are main parts of corsair fleet, its kinda unbalancing and not in corsair stlye.

Centurion agility should go up, but not above sabre. Sabre is king of agile VHF.
Class 10 shields, yes could do.
Armor upgrade, slightly yes.
But leave it as heavyest hf there is. Since in this game HF represents MF actually, and i can imagine corsairs using optimality and verstility over one strenght.

Titan is mostly fine as you wrote. Max cargo shold be 120 tho, so you do not out rank junker Collector(eg current fighter with most cargo)
And, second CD slot... why not simply make torp slot and cd slot(i dont see point of ability to mount 2 CD) And it should stay VHF.

---

ISS-Zapotec

[Carlos_Benitez]

Right i like the idea. I still remember how was it to fly titan. It is slow, heavy, and can double as weapon platform. Now, since this + pretorians are main parts of corsair fleet, its kinda unbalancing and not in corsair stlye.

Centurion agility should go up, but not above sabre. Sabre is king of agile VHF.
Class 10 shields, yes could do.
Armor upgrade, slightly yes.
But leave it as heaviest HF there is. Since in this game HF represents MF actually, and i can imagine corsairs using optimality and versatility over one strength.

Titan is mostly fine as you wrote. Max cargo should be 120 tho, so you do not out rank junker Collector(eg current fighter with most cargo)
And, second CD slot... why not simply make torp slot and cd slot(i dont see point of ability to mount 2 CD) And it should stay VHF.

I get what you're saying, but surely if it stays as a HF, then why not have it more agile than the Sabre? Besides, as far as I remember the Eagle is more agile than the Sabre, so it's not king.
The idea behind the Centurion improvements was to make the agility one of it's defining features, and in particular the feature that makes it superior to the Titan, even though it has less power, armour and guns. The last thing we want is for this to go ahead, and then for people to still find the Titan better in dogfights, because then all we've done is given the Titan more cargo and an extra CD slot almost free-of-charge.

I agree about the Torp/CD thing. The capability of the CD/Torp hardpoint to mount CDs would be pointless.

---

[RParade]

I get what you're saying, but surely if it stays as a HF, then why not have it more agile than the Sabre? Besides, as far as I remember the Eagle is more agile than the Sabre, so it's not king.

Depends on what you consider "agile", I guess.

Eagle is more manueverable I think, but the Sabre I believe has lower mass, so it's strafing abilities are amazing.

The suggested changes aren't bad, but to further enable the Titan series, I'd suggest perhaps adding a CD and a Torpedo slot to it. This way it would really be much like a mobile weapons platform, it'd be able to subdue with CD's and cripple with torpedoes. Sounds like a fair trade to me, although I honestly don't see the point in reducing it's agility even more from where it already is. It's already a rather horrible VHF, really.

EDIT - Ah, I see the original proposal was to add an additional Torpedo slot to the Titan. My bad for missing that bit. Still, I don't really think it's agility should be reduced anymore from what it already is, it's already sluggishly slow to be honest. Everyone knows extra armor on a Fighter means nothing if every other Fighter in existence can out-dance you (and thus, hit you more often), so I think reducing the agility anymore would make it a very worthless Fighter. The addition of a torpedo slot in conjunction with a CD slot is a logical move for the Corsairs to take, since torpedoes do happen to be one of the Sabre's weaknesses (unless you know how to fly it), but if you're going to make it even slower than what it is now you may aswell add an extra 10K and turn it into a Bomber.

[Carlos_Benitez]

Depends on what you consider "agile", I guess.

Eagle is more manueverable I think, but the Sabre I believe has lower mass, so it's strafing abilities are amazing.

The suggested changes aren't bad, but to further enable the Titan series, I'd suggest perhaps adding a CD and a Torpedo slot to it. This way it would really be much like a mobile weapons platform, it'd be able to subdue with CD's and cripple with torpedoes. Sounds like a fair trade to me, although I honestly don't see the point in reducing it's agility even more from where it already is. It's already a rather horrible VHF, really.

Err...the above is the idea. The Titan has a Torp/CD slot..and giving it another CD would allow it to mount both a CD and a Torp. Perhaps I was a bit unclear.
The further reduction of the Titan's agility was, in large, because I know people don't like the Corsairs getting something for nothing, plus, the increased cargo space would lead to increased inertia. I wanted it to become a useless fighter, because the Centurion fills that role, allowing the Titan to evolve into a cargo-train muncher.

EDIT: You edited while I was posting.:P

---

[RParade]

Err...the above is the idea. The Titan has a Torp/CD slot..and giving it another CD would allow it to mount both a CD and a Torp. Perhaps I was a bit unclear.
The further reduction of the Titan's agility was, in large, because I know people don't like the Corsairs getting something for nothing, plus, the increased cargo space would lead to increased inertia.

.. Well, it only makes sense that after getting rolled by the Outcasts' fighter squadrons that the Corsairs would finally develop a decent fighter of their own. I don't play a Corsair (I'm an Outcast noob myself), but I like the idea of rebalancing the Centurion and revamping the Titan abit. I'm not sure why it hasn't been done yet, honestly, because all of the Corsair ships tend to have huge exploitable weaknesses in comparison to ships from other factions. Don't decrease the Titans agility any further, just slap a torpedo bay on it and boost the powerplant abit - it's already a Super Heavy Fighter to begin with, heh. Don't make it any slower!

EDIT - It may also be interesting to add a pair of missile slots to the Titan. This way you'd have two missile slots, the same amount of guns, torpedo and a CD. It sounds absurd I know, but having fought plenty of Titans I don't think it'd be unbalancing. The name "Titan" suggests something powerful and solid, it'd be nice if the stats actually reflected that line of thought. If you did this, the Titan would hopefully still have some use alongside the Centurion. 'Cause currently, I don't think people would use the Titan anymore if the Centurion became a respectable V/HF.

[mjolnir]

You should remember that most probably all vanilla ships will loose their vulnerability to explosives. So Titan/Centurion will no longer die to one mine/torp or two cannonballs.

@Titan

no point in that really... with your changes you get agility very close to Praetorian, with lower powerplant and much lower armor while having 1 or 2 extra gunslots => no reason to fly Titan instead of the Praetorian

@Centurion

you basically want to make rather agile VHF (Viper MKI-like), I think nobody will fly the Titan then either....

I suggested the Centurion to get turning increase to somewhere around current Sabre level (which is probably getting lowered), while keeping everything else.. making it a proper Heavy (or Medium if you like that better) Fighter

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Dab]

This idea could work, depending on just how much maneuverability you take off the Titan, and how much you put on the Centurion. The Outcasts are known in infocards AND in their ships, that they value speed, agility, and firepower over armor. Corsairs prefer more armor than firepower, but the agility is unknown, due to the fact that ships lower than level 10 go on a scale fit to when you encounter them in the storyline. So we will never know if the Centurion really was supposed to be better in agility than the Stiletto or not.

---

[Cosmos]

one faction is not supposed too have overwhelming speed agility and firepower in one ship, like the sabre, its too nerfed.


(also before i go too an event in my titan, i fly my cruiser around for about 20 mins, because when i logg onto my titan it feels alot more lighter than it normally is, after flying a hefty cruiser.)

---

[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternal†Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)