Firstly, we're threatened by violence during our stations initial stages by .:j:.Latte. Later .:j:.Lucius.Vorenus threatens our station before opening fire on it himself, activating the shield. Finally, one of our ships undocked in Puerto Rico to find that both Congress bases were shooting at him. He was hostile to the station. Which likely means all JM|- tagged ships are now hostile to it.
Why is this happening? Why are you suddenly acting hostile towards us?
(07-19-2014, 06:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Greetings Congress
Greetings Marauder, I am Congressman Aces, here to speak on the behalf of clarity.
(07-19-2014, 06:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: You have some explaining to do:
I'll be concise and complete so that you need not risk using a derogatory tone again.
Firstly:
(07-19-2014, 06:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Finally, one of our ships undocked in Puerto Rico to find that both Congress bases were shooting at him. He was hostile to the station. Which likely means all JM|- tagged ships are now hostile to it.
Puerto Rico's defenses have been active for quite some time, due to incursions by unauthorized Pilots. Besides being common news amongst Junkers, a Public Bulletin was issued warning Pilots to get clearance before entering the system. It's suggested that Marauders stay up to date on 'ordinary Junker' going-ons.. especially those regarding the status (and access) of Puerto Rico, the home of said Junkers.
On Activities of local Junkers regarding POB's:
(07-19-2014, 06:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Firstly, we're threatened by violence during our stations initial stages by .:j:.Latte. Later .:j:.Lucius.Vorenus threatens our station before opening fire on it himself, activating the shield.
Multiple requests have recently been made to the Junker Congress regarding the construction of stations within Texas. However this base specifically was addressed by a Congressman, who reiterated the current policy of desiring that 'any station built around Beaumont be no closer than 20 kilometers'. The blatant disregard of a man's opinion is unlikely to win his adoration. On a seperate note, one would be extremely surprised to see Pilots such as the Marauders -- who engage frequently in combative and violent demonstrations -- so poorly acclimated to (and easily intimidated by) a few choice words from a transport Pilot.
Regarding the state of 'unanticipated confusion':
(07-19-2014, 06:50 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Why is this happening? Why are you suddenly acting hostile towards us?
Take care not to confuse open hostility with an unsympathetic attitude of mistrust.
The Marauders have taken great lengths to establish themselves as an autonomous group, removed from other Junkers, and have themselves expressed an attitude of indifference or even aggression towards independent Junkers and Congress as a whole. Therefore, to request at this time additional lengths of 'trust' or 'aid' from all Junkers on behalf of the Marauders.. would require at minimal an honest display of deference by -your Pilots-, and not the other way 'round.
--------------------------
Now that those matters are addressed, I leave you with an unrelated but pertinent observation on the execution of business and politics: The establishing and operating of a Station in direct conflict to [the location] approval, the security of locals, and the stability of surrounding businesses -- is not only inopportune, but should carry with it the expectation of adversity.
If ye Marauders seek to continue to work independently without gain or regard for other Junkers, then it would not be wise to expect those brethren to regard a direct intrusion with undue deference.
-Aces
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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'
****Incoming Transmission****
****Comm ID: Lucius Vorenus****
****Location: Beaumont Base****
I hardly think a cruise disrupter fired into an unauthorized Freelancer installation
deserves to be called an act of aggression. This is what i call an act of aggression, you and your Zoner chums almost reducing
my ship to scrap like your soon to be base!
You evaded answering questions about the base when i undocked from it, one lie
after another and then insult me, you call Zoner vessels from Beaumonts hangers
to assist in the attack on my Liner & you ask why is this happening?
Are you some kind of cretin boy?
Best you pack your whores on your camels and take your diseases elsewhere.
Congressman Aces:
Our tag was placed on the whitelist for both La Fortaleza and La Mona Castra. Yes, we know about the LSF incursions into Puerto Rico. But the fact that you've removed our tag from the whitelist so that the bases trap our ships into Puerto Rico, as well as all the other poor independent Junker ships, is ludicrous. We're not uninformed about the news here, you're simply being hostile to us with no actual reason why.
The Congress does not own the space around Junker bases anymore. What JT wrote was not law, it was simply a suggestion. We decided to ignore his suggestion as the base would be less profitable for us and less convenient for the customers. We also wish to abide by the Liberty Government here, which has much higher importance than you when it comes to base placement. There is no policy. I am intimidated because I have worries that what you are doing is no accident, and you are intent on destroying our station and killing the crew inside.
You talk about us removing ourselves from other Junkers. Sure, we may be different, but what's wrong with being different? Does the Congress wish to tightly control the actions, thoughts and aspirations of the people they so desperately desire to protect? You do not let your people, our people evolve.
We have tried to cooperate and open up new ventures, however you yourselves do not seem willing. You do not trust us, we do not trust you. You do not have the right to speak for all Junkers. If that was the case, we'd all be banned from Liberty following your antics.
You do not dictate what is inopportune and what is not profitable. You do not dictate the security of the locals, nor their interests. You may only offer an opinion. Congressman Vorenus
Cruise disruptor? Do not lie to me. Me and another Marauder witnessed your liner firing at our base, making the shield go up. Do not bring your foolish lies here to worsen things, I am already not pleased with you.
We answered all the questions you had about the base, however you avoided taking them in and insisted on shooting Spire.
And please, the Zoner is not with us. He has no reason to attack you. Although we may have a reason to attack you soon unless you change your attitude.
And are you threatening our base? Listen here, Congressman, we do not take kindly to threats. You don't want to go barking up the wrong tree, you may not like what you find at the top.
So here's how things are going to work. I am going to make some demands:
The Congress will refrain from shooting our base in the future. If we find you doing it, you will face our wrath.
The Congress will immediately end the lockdown on Puerto Rico. You preach freedom, yet, this freedom is not given to independent Junkers and us who wish to pass through the system. You preach security, yet, isn't it just for your own security?
The Congress will stop enforcing that they have the right to control not only the distribution of Marauder bases, but independent Junker bases near Junker installations. We will oversee this instead and you will stop poking your noses where they do not need to be poked.
The Congress has the choice of being given docking permissions to Spire, but they must assist in supplying the base. The Congress can refuse to comply to this demand, however they will not be given docking rights on the base.
Finally, we would like a fee of 5,000,000 credits to be sent to JM|-Bank#1 as cost for the fuel that was wasted in protecting the base from your foolish guns.
I suggest you read what we've written carefully, and comply to our demands as instructed. You do not want to tread around the bush here. On the other hand, you can ignore what we've written, but I warn you: Mess with the viper, you get the fangs.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: We have tried to cooperate and open up new ventures, however you yourselves do not seem willing. You do not trust us, we do not trust you. You do not have the right to speak for all Junkers. If that was the case, we'd all be banned from Liberty following your antics.
Quite the contrary, we are quite open to new ventures, and throughout years of operation have not found ourselves banned from Liberty. However, at no point either have we found ourselves a 'protectorate' of the Liberty Government, with their capital warships deployed to help secure the safety of our stations.
Therefore, the suspicion cast upon a station established only a mere 3000 meters from the existing Beaumont Base is quite rational.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Does the Congress wish to tightly control the actions, thoughts and aspirations of the people they so desperately desire to protect? You do not let your people, our people evolve.
You talk about us removing ourselves from other Junkers. Sure, we may be different, but what's wrong with being different?
The 'difference' you speak of is the fact that the Marauders are their own entity, and ID. One that has been reported compromise other Junkers or their clients. Most recently, intelligence has reported the specific tracking of other Junker stations within the Texas system, with three of those separate independent stations destroyed, as preparations for the Spire have continued in defiance of local advising. This aligns with the confirmed ongoing sales of Pilot information to local authorities, and verified reports of anti-Junker hostilities involving independent Pilots.
These ongoing concerns, in combination with afore-mentioned [publicly self-proclaimed] Marauder desires to operate 'in their own fashion', have led others to rightly consider them as a possible security risk to Junkers that are not aligned with them.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The Congress does not own the space around Junker bases anymore. What JT wrote was not law, it was simply a suggestion. We decided to ignore his suggestion..
You do not dictate what is inopportune and what is not profitable. You do not dictate the security of the locals, nor their interests. You may only offer an opinion.
Aye, as you said, we have only offered opinions. Congressmen have not been the Pilots knocking down your doors, just the gentlemen advising you that it may have been a poor idea.
Since we have been ignored completely, you'll find the advice now often carries a sardonic tone. However we -do- act in the interest of Junkers, and from what we have seen, there is little Junker interest in this station in comparison to larger involved parties..
Perhaps a change in demeanor and a re-evaluation of the parties considered in the effort to construct this station, would lead to a less diplomatically-unstable venture. Until then, we will seek to maintain stability of the local Junker populace.
-Aces
---------------------------------
But, seeing as this has quickly degraded to antagonistic diplomacy..
I will address this as well, then voluntarily remove myself from this dialogue further:
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: So here's how things are going to work. I am going to make some demands:
How reasonable, shoot.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
The Congress will refrain from shooting our base in the future. If we find you doing it, you will face our wrath.
Our ships are already fired upon by your vessels, as Lucius reiterated. This is nothin' new, and we have still offered only calm advisement.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
The Congress will immediately end the lockdown on Puerto Rico. You preach freedom, yet, this freedom is not given to independent Junkers and us who wish to pass through the system. You preach security, yet, isn't it just for your own security?
Negative, all independent Junkers are cleared immediately. Protocol was due to incursions by LSF Pilots based on "verified intelligence", a good tip-off that the Junkers had been compromised in the area, requiring temporary safety measures within reason. We have been most accommodating to all cordial Pilots.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
The Congress will stop enforcing that they have the right to control not only the distribution of Marauder bases, but independent Junker bases near Junker installations. We will oversee this instead and you will stop poking your noses where they do not need to be poked.
I'm sure Congress would greatly appreciate the capability to simply build stations as we see fit near established Junker installations. Seeing as this isn't a reasonable demand and is made by Marauders, who have been prior involved in the locating and deconstruction process of stations, we'll move on.
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
The Congress has the choice of being given docking permissions to Spire, but they must assist in supplying the base. The Congress can refuse to comply to this demand, however they will not be given docking rights on the base.
**I think denying docking rights to Junkers who wont offer you immediate benefit is an excellent start to your 'contribution' to the Junkers as a whole.**
(07-19-2014, 11:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
Finally, we would like a fee of 5,000,000 credits to be sent to JM|-Bank#1 as cost for the fuel that was wasted in protecting the base from your foolish guns.
I suggest you read what we've written carefully, and comply to our demands as instructed. You do not want to tread around the bush here. On the other hand, you can ignore what we've written, but I warn you: Mess with the viper, you get the fangs.
Making threats and demands while ye struggle to maintain a first station is not a desirable position, especially when uttered only a breath apart from a request for access to stations ye cannot penetrate. Free access to LF, will you be supplying us as well then? I would rethink contradictory demands in case the result is that neither are met.
It seems compromise will only be reached here if cooler diplomacy prevails before the conclusion of these hostilities. It is not possible to operate in open contradiction to local parties without ongoing conflict.
-Aces, allll the way out
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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'
Congressman Aces:
There is no need to be suspicious about the station. It's in our control and Tal Ravis's control.
What is the definition of a Junker? We may be a different entity to you, as you are a different entity to us. There is no clear cut way as how to act, other than we should not get caught by the law enforcement doing unsavoury things.
And what is this hearsay about us tracking down and destroying other Junker stations? We would not do such a thing, however you seem confident enough to threat us with such action. If the Liberty Law enforcement decides to track down and destroy bases, legal or illegal, then that is not our business.
The Congress have been the pilots 'knocking down ours doors'. I would not have sent this communication if that wasn't the case.
You act within the interest of Junkers? And what would that be? To deny them of other pursuits beyond the jump holes of Puerto Rico?
We do not participate in the regular shooting of Congress vessels, that may be subject to change as you seem persistent in provoking us, as well as it seems you refuse to comply to this demand.
If you have been accommodating all Junker pilots, why have we been scrubbed off the list then? I feel that with robust diplomacy, we can end LSFs aggression. But I do not feel that it is right that every Junker must suffer for your actions.
Your accusation that we destroy other stations is built on a lack of evidence and poor judgement. Junker bases built by Junker installations harbour no danger to the nearby installation.
We had originally given the Congress docking rights and frequently invited them often to haul Premium Scrap from the base. However, after seeing you show hostility and even attempts to destroy our base, we are less willing to give you these rights so easily. And, as I have said, you do not represent all Junkers. We have already had some independent Junkers use our installation as a storage facility.
We are struggling to maintain a station because you seem to be intent on destroying it. And still, you are making more threats.
I do not ask for access to LF and LMC, all I ask is for the JM|- tag to be re-added to the whitelist, as it should be. We may supply you if we feel inclined to, but we are not the ones showing aggression towards a base here.
I will tell you now and I will not repeat myself. I expect the next Congressman that replies to this transmission to adhere to our demands. At the very least I expect the JM|- tag to be added to the bases whitelist rather than completely ending the lockdown on Puerto Rico. All the other demands must be met.
If I do not get the response I want within the next 24 hours, we will take action.
****Incoming Transmission****
****Comm ID: Lucius Vorenus****
****Location: Beaumont Base****
Yet you already are and now you're squawking on & on like an old record .
You're not in any position to barter demands, your children will eat crap and
die before any of your demands are met, Puerto is for Junkers, not for sleazy
cretins like yourself and as long as i have a hole in my arse; you'll not get cleared in
Puerto again.
Now get it into your thick skull, pack up your crap & bog off back to Noddyland.
Congress
You heard what I said, I will not go back on my word. Vorenus's reply has just ousted any sort of diplomacy that could take place.
We are no longer friends, we are now enemies. Consider yourselves hostile to our base, to us, to our intentions and to our goals.
If we need to, we will crush you.
I am Xera of the Junker Congress. I would like to request that BOTH sides to take a step back.. Things have been said that are leading down a path that once gone down will be hard to return from and be incredibly destructive to all Junkers Sirius wide.
I don't believe that either side wishes for a Junker civil war which could result in the destruction of the Junkers as a whole.
Lets ALL take a step back and diffuse this incredibly dangerous path we are both headed down. I am speaking independently as a Junker. I would suggest/request that ALL communications in this matter stop immediately.
I would suggest that Trenton and George Masters meet at Beaumont Base and discuss this at a time convenient to both faction leaders, leader to leader and work this out. I believe that mistakes, *unintentional* mistakes... have been made that are making things seem worse then they actually are.
For the sakes of both factions and to the Junkers everywhere that we OWE it to, to try and work this out, lets take a step back from this path and let the leaders of both factions work this out. Again I am speaking as an independent Junker for junkers.
Congresswoman Xera
Very well then. Arrange a time for us to meet at Beaumont. I will allow another chance for diplomacy. I expect you not to bring ships that could harm the base, and to use this as a ploy to harm us.