Unofficial Faction Rules

[Karst]

Okay, so recently there were a couple cases involving unofficial factions which often attracted considerable drama.
I believe the entire concept of forcing faction rules on an unofficial group that is not seeking officialdom is nonsensical.

The main issue is that there is no reason at all for any group of people that wish to fly together to call themselves a faction in the first place, when this gives them absolutely no additional rights, but tons of additional responsibilities.

For example, let's say I fly a Freelancer ID'd ship that works with some friends of mine flying Corsairs. As long as we don't share a common tag, that's no issue at all, but if we decide to identify ourselves as part of the same group, it would suddenly be a problem because we don't all have the same ID.
And what's the point? Even if I am for all purposes and intents part of their group and never fly without them, a situation which is np np without a tag, the mere addition of a tag with literally no other changes makes it a "faction rule violation".

All that I can see this encouraging is groups not bothering to do forum RP / unofficial faction threads, and flying untagged, since they're essentially being punished with pointless rules for no gain.

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[Black Widow]

The problem is that multi ID'd single tag factions could utilise the mix of IDs to use the best tech from different sources, thus giving said faction a PVP edge in battle with its superior tech combos.

An example of this was GNG utilizing Rogues Snubs and guns hand in hand with a RH GB and Brigand GB which is a nightmare to kill in the hands of a good TS'r. Brigand GB plus GB solarises is a superior anti snub / anti gb rig.

[Kauket]

Tbh, it really does need changing. Something has to be done, it's just too restrictive and has more negative than positive, you get metagamed(well, anything does but this gets it worst).

I think that generic ID factions should be able to use other generic ID's.

Eg like a mining faction wants to kill off competition, they send in a naughty wing of their Pirate ID'd ships to take the competition out as their Miner ID's fly in - It's like how freelancers choose their rep too.

There are loads of other negative things that I'm just seriously too tired to think of

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[HassLHoFF™]

This is quite 2-sided in my opinion. Even though I don't see a problem to mix the Generic ID's with Generic ID's or a Faction ID. I see a problem in using two or more faction ID's. Simply cause any faction ID has its "specific" benefits and restrictions. Sure there also can be exceptions, but these should have a solid RP reason. The fact that this is just traceable when they use a shared tag is another point. In general its quite tricking of rules doing it untagged.
I just remember the huge facepalm i did while I had seen Tel_Aviv created an indie Republican Shipping Ship to haul supplies in a 5k in house space for their ZA bases once.

I think discovery needs an improvement of the mechanics itself.

This also means specifying the basis an ID is interpretable.
For example a lot people see some Autonomous Organization and transsirian IDs quite "generic", preferebly Zoner, AI and sometimes even BHG Core and Order ID.
I really can't count how often I read...My father was a zoner, blabla,...

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[Sabru]

Eg like a mining faction wants to kill off competition, they send in a naughty wing of their Pirate ID'd ships to take the competition out as their Miner ID's fly in - It's like how freelancers choose their rep too.

Say that happens. what happens then if another group with a bigger wing of pirate ID ships comes in and drives off the first group?

50/50 chance (considering the disco community) the first group would QQ for some vague reason about being beaten at their own game.

something like that would only possibly encourage various warring pirate gankfleets ganking each others miners.


On the actual OP topic, if you have a group of friends just fly together. nothing stops you if you use just generic IDs. just dont use a tag as its generally seen as being organized enough to be considered a faction, regardless of it the group itself thinks of themselves as one.

when you add tags and 1 or more faction IDs to generic ID'd groups, then you get clustersanctions like GNG/G

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[Jansen]

The problem is that multi ID'd single tag factions could utilise the mix of IDs to use the best tech from different sources, thus giving said faction a PVP edge in battle with its superior tech combos.

An example of this was GNG utilizing Rogues Snubs and guns hand in hand with a RH GB and Brigand GB which is a nightmare to kill in the hands of a good TS'r. Brigand GB plus GB solarises is a superior anti snub / anti gb rig.

Thats essentially the problem. The IDs are more or less balanced towards each other, if you have a group of people, using different IDs they break that system and gain really big advantages over other factions/players that are restricted by their ID.

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[Haste]

You're all ignoring Karst's point. We (and he) probably all know why these restrictions are in place for (official) factions. However, what he's pointing out is that if these "GNG" simply didn't call themselves "GNG" and flew around as John.Smith, Peter.Parker and Fat.Joe without any tags, they could also be flying a Rogue Gunboat, an Outcast Rapier and a Red Hessian Odin in one group.

Which means that, effectively, players are only punished for combining the "ultimate tech" if they choose to let themselves be punished by sticking a tag onto their ships' names.

[Karst]

You're all ignoring Karst's point. We (and he) probably all know why these restrictions are in place for (official) factions. However, what he's pointing out is that if these "GNG" simply didn't call themselves "GNG" and flew around as John.Smith, Peter.Parker and Fat.Joe without any tags, they could also be flying a Rogue Gunboat, an Outcast Rapier and a Red Hessian Odin in one group.

Which means that, effectively, players are only punished for combining the "ultimate tech" if they choose to let themselves be punished by sticking a tag onto their ships' names.

This is exactly my point, which I apparently didn't make clear enough in the OP.

ID rules themselves already prevent groups with blatantly incompatible IDs from working together (e.g. LPi and LH), but by preventing a group from using different IDs that CAN work together, you're solely punishing them for putting a tag on their ships since they could just as easily fly untagged.

Basically, all you're doing is punishing RP'ing as a group.

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[baivan]

Another example of foction-ID-rules that makes my brains hurt.

Nomads can mess with human brains.So when 2 Liberty navy ships meet a nomad,they never shoot at each other!!!!Where as nomad, what you do is mess with their heads so that they shoot at each other(which can get you in trouble for shooting your own).

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"Your words are powerful; write carefully, with precision and meaning. Use them to nurture, not destroy." - Jools Noctru of the Order of Krath

[Tutashkhia]

An example of this was GNG utilizing Rogues Snubs and guns hand in hand with a RH GB and Brigand GB which is a nightmare to kill in the hands of a good TS'r. Brigand GB plus GB solarises is a superior anti snub / anti gb rig.

You're stuck in the past too much. GNG doesn't fly Ascos, but flies one of the slowest Gunboats (Heimdal and Imperator) and you still have problems with it,right?

So yes, what if we didn't have "GNG" tag, but flew all those mixed IDed ships/techs in one group, like we use to have before we added |GNG at the end of our nicks?